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Pirates are eating themselves!

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Pirates are eating themselves!

OH NO

from JoeUser Forums

In every ordered system in which it is allowed, some element or another at some point figures out it can cheat. Little kids start blaming things on their siblings, carnivores eat herbivores, and lawyers thieve from businessmen. Well, the same has happened within the software industry. Ok, I'll be the first to grant you that the music industry was never really creative in the first place. But people did want what it had to offer. In fact, they wanted crappy music enough to pay big money for a CD.

Well, usually cheaters are not such a huge problem. Usually, non-producers are a thorn in the side of progress, but not a serious impediment. Usually, however, does not apply this time. The internet is different because it gives organized powers no control over who can peep in on their ideas and content at each hop, skip, and router. They can't fight back! DRM is the one defense that creative people have, and Stardock has made a business, in part, out of not using it. Go figure.

So, it seems that the companies  working hard to produce and create can be driven extinct by a common pirate. Piracy destroys the incentive for producers to produce, and if it gets bad enough, companies will stop producing entirely. What I find most ironic about this particularly revolting peice of human nature is that the pirate never realizes that once the creative people stop making them free games, the pirates will go extinct, too.

465,617 views 185 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top


Someone pointed out OFP's (Operation Flashpoint's) anti-piracy method. In my opinion this was the least intrusive to legit users, and a beautiful pain in the ass to pirates... ;p 

quoting a wikipedia article on the subject of FADE:

"FADE is a copy protection software feature incorporated into OFP. FADE can make playing OFP extremely annoying or absolutely not worthwhile.

When FADE is activated, it affects gameplay aspects of the game. This may include (but is not limited to) the following:

reduced accuracy of some weapons, reduced weapon performance, increased enemy hit endurance and increased player injuries.

If someone tries using an illegal version in which an attempt was made to remove or disable FADE copy protection, OFP might easily exhibit signs of instability. Removing copy protection includes changing program code in many various areas, which leads to increased application instability. Many illegal versions are known to contain such instabilities, causing the game to crash during various gameplay events.

The solution is to only use the original retail version of OFP as installed from the CD, as well as applying only original upgrades and patches from official OFP web sites."


that's right......let em pirate the game, then make em die faster and not shoot straight..... :LOL: 
Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top
So, basically, there is no one in this discussion who believes that digital rights should be defended? In fact, everyone here praises Stardock because they just let pirates steal from them if they want? I am confirmed in my initial belief that you are ALL pirates. I have not heard an opinion from anyone who I would assume has not and will not steal ideas.It is also interesting to have it confirmed that America's internet infrastructure is infinitely superior to the barbarian countries. Although, America does also have its faults. Some people think that anyway. I usually humm free country in my head until the bad thoughts go away.



This sounds suspiciously like a troll.


Also, stop the ad hominem arguments. It's annoying and ignorant. If you're going to argue a topic then do so by making supportive points not by claiming your opponents are "bad peoples who stealz mah idees".

Leern comunicashun moar.
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #28 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
My assumption was hardly rash. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that people who don't care about protecting ideas might want to steal them.


Well, I beg to disagree. I am extremely passionate about rights of attribution. Plagiarism is such a bad problem these days that you can hardly go a month without seeing a major scholar or journalist caught with their citation pants down. That is far more harmful for posterity than any amount of software piracy.

The ownership stuff is another matter, and you don't seem to be open to the idea that because (c) as we know it is a product of democratic government, changing or removing it is a perfectly reasonable subject of discussion even amongst people who diligently obey the laws that they believe are wrong.
Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top
democratic government


I see. You are not a pirate. You are a liberal. My mistake. I respect that far more. I just think you are wrong and I want to see thieves burn in hell, if you don't mind. Thank you for clearing that up, though. I am all for giving the people what they want. Unless, of course, the people are stupid thieving diseased bastards. That's what makes me conservative, I guess.
Reply #30 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
He's basically just saying that he's letting pirates steal his game because he can't do anything about it without hurting his sales.


Who in Stardock said that? Can you link to the post?
Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top
Cobra, one of the myriad criminals on this forum postedthis site in an attemp to rationalize his crimes.
Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top
democratic governmentI see. You are not a pirate. You are a liberal. My mistake. I respect that far more. I just think you are wrong and I want to see thieves burn in hell, if you don't mind. Thank you for clearing that up, though. I am all for giving the people what they want. Unless, of course, the people are stupid thieving diseased bastards. That's what makes me conservative, I guess.


Dear Lord man...



Thus far your only backup for claiming anything here is that "I don't like it" because it breaks some arbitrary rule.

You know what? Some rules, some laws, should be modified or done away with. Hell we'd still have slavery, no suffrage for women, and on and on.

In San Antonio Texas, did you know that it is illegal for more than I think it was 8 women to live in the same house because it's considered a Brothel? Do you really think that such a law should continue to exist just because it's a law?

You should look up Kohlberg's stages of moral development my friend because right now you're at a 1 on the scale.

Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top
You should look up Kohlberg's stages of moral development my friend because right now you're at a 1 on the scale.


I bet he was a pirate. If the person who doesn't steal is a 1 and presumably liberals and pirates are higher, then the scale is tilted in favor of hacks and, well... liberals.

Liberals I can tolerate. They smell bad, but at least they stand for something understandable. Thieves deserve punishment. If liberals try to give thieves power (and they just might, those bastards), then hopefully conservatives will keep the gears spinning.
Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top
so here's a scenario.

US government starts taking a monthly tax on the estimated oxygen usage as dictated by their age, profession, physical state (of fitness, etc.), and location, and charges all citizens with apprehending those who "steal" this air (I.E. breath without paying the tax) for public execution, you would be in favour of it because dirty thieves should burn in Hell since laws should be obeyed regardless of their nature?
Reply #35 from JoeUser Forums Top
US government starts taking a monthly tax


that's where you made your mistake. of course i would find this appalling. The government is taxing the remaining oxygen? Dear lord! If oxygen became a scarce resource, I would hope the government would allow the free market to dictate where it went. And then thieves should be punished. After all, if someone has to die, it shouldn't be the people working to earn the remaining oxygen.
Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top
Guys there is no winning or nutral ground to be found with SlyDrivel, he is one of these people in the US that cause fights just to get some kicks. all you can do is ignore him, and ask a manager of this site to restrict his useage of this fourms so we can have adult conversations. Normally i just tell people lke SlyDrivel to leave me alone, as i diel the police before finnishing dieling i explain i must hit one more button and then hell be arrested or atlest a paper trail for law suit for harrasment can be filed.
Reply #37 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
SlyDrivel, I'm not a liberal, I'm a radical who likes people too much to endorse any form of violence against people, be it physical, emotional, economic, environmental, whatever. And I'm practical, and omnivorous, enough to understand that my nutrition depends on some degree of violence, at the very least tilling the earth.

I'm also a bit confused as to why you'd be so passionate about what seem to me to be very similar forms of government power. Copyright depends just as much on government to intervene in the so-called free market as would a hypothetical oxygen tax. Unless you're somehow assuming that we lose the natural atmosphere and the few remaining people all live in privately owned habitats?
Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top
SlyDrivel, I'm not a liberal, I'm a radical who likes people too much to endorse any form of violence against people,


That sounds rather "open-minded" to me. See, that makes you a liberal. I am not open-minded. I know what is right, what is wrong, and which is thievery, and I intend to demand punishment for criminal actions, to the extend that those punishments deter the crimes. I dream of a nearly unrestricted free-market in which anyone with a good idea can pull himself up by his bootstraps, so I want a country in which people cannot easily take an idea from the inventor. I don't think cracking down on crime is a travesty of justice or a megalomaniac's desire. The problem is that you can't agree that piracy is a crime like any other.

Guys there is no winning or nutral ground to be found with SlyDrivel, he is one of these people in the US that cause fights just to get some kicks. all you can do is ignore him, and ask a manager of this site to restrict his useage of this fourms so we can have adult conversations. Normally i just tell people lke SlyDrivel to leave me alone, as i diel the police before finnishing dieling i explain i must hit one more button and then hell be arrested or atlest a paper trail for law suit for harrasment can be filed.


From this I can tell that you are

(a) an intenet stalker
, as i diel the police before finnishing dieling i explain i must hit one more button and then hell be arrested or atlest a paper trail for law suit for harrasment can be filed.


and

(b) someone who fights to get some kicks. After all, you are replying to my post. The people here are arguing with me because that's what they want to do. I am responding because that's what I want to do. It's very simple.

{edit}

whoa whoa. i just noticed this.

(c) maybe not american. "one of those people in the US"? Are you saying you are not? And if so, are you implying that the crooked police of whatever barbaric country calls you its livestock would sick its hounds on the voice of justice?

[one last edit]

I want you all to know that while I believe socialism has hurt foreign economies, my opinion of America or "The Great State of America" is largely sarcastic. We have our problems, too.






Reply #39 from Sins Forums Top
Man has tried this for hundrads of years, yet it contiunes because profit is made. by both sides. in the end adaptation is the key to servival, if the product providers cant adapt they will die and a new stronger beast will emerge. (rule of evolution 101)
Reply #40 from Demigod Forums Top
So, basically, there is no one in this discussion who believes that digital rights should be defended? In fact, everyone here praises Stardock because they just let pirates steal from them if they want? I am confirmed in my initial belief that you are ALL pirates. I have not heard an opinion from anyone who I would assume has not and will not steal ideas.It is also interesting to have it confirmed that America's internet infrastructure is infinitely superior to the barbarian countries. Although, America does also have its faults. Some people think that anyway. I usually humm free country in my head until the bad thoughts go away.


We probably wouldn't be here if we hadn't bought a stardock game.

I bought Sins of a Solar Empire.
Reply #41 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If publishers want to stop piracy then they've got to address the things that cause it, rather than trying to stem the tide via DRM.

The issues are:

1) Poor quality games, meaning stopping the 'cookie cutter' approach to game design.

2) Poor quality support, buggy code, unfinshed products.

3) Lack of communication between developers and end users.

4) Overcharging for games outside of the US. There are tons of publishers (I mostly notice the ones that go for Digital Downloads) that assume that people will pay £35 or 35 Euros for a game that sells in the US for $35 USD. Assuming that people living outside the US will pay double the price is silly.

It's much like the failed "War on Drugs" in the 90s in the US. Floating aircraft carriers off South America, killing Colombian coca farmers and indescrimately spraying herbicides all over the place didn't do much good! Addressing the social issues behind drug use, tackling poverty at home and dealing with problems in the community is much more effective. The DRM approach to piracy will fail in the same way as the "War on Drugs" did.

If publishers want to combat piracy then they need a new approach. Otherwise it will get worse.



Reply #42 from JoeUser Forums Top
If publishers want to stop piracy then they've got to address the things that cause it, rather than trying to stem the tide via DRM.


Piracy is caused by a potential buyer realizing that it is relatively safe to download something illegally. It doesn't matter why they are disatisfied. No one should have the casual ability to decide whether they should pay for a product. If a company makes crappy games (which none of them that hope to stay alive do), then you are entitled not to waste your time or money with them. Being disatisfied because you think it's pure crap and stealing it is a conflict of your opinion.

It's obviously not crap or you wouldn't want it enough to steal and spend time playing
Reply #43 from Sins Forums Top
Just what this forum needs. Another sermon by the church of intellectual property to rally people to the cause of your holy jihad against pirates.

> That sounds rather "open-minded" to me. See, that makes you a liberal. I am not
> open-minded. I know what is right, what is wrong, and which is thievery, and I intend to
> demand punishment for criminal actions, to the extend that those punishments deter the
> crimes. I dream of a nearly unrestricted free-market in which anyone with a good idea can
> pull himself up by his bootstraps, so I want a country in which people cannot easily take
> an idea from the inventor. I don't think cracking down on crime is a travesty of justice
> or a megalomaniac's desire. The problem is that you can't agree that piracy is a crime
> like any other.

Who deemed you the supreme dictator of what is right and what is wrong?

Intellectual property and a free market are inherently incompatible. You cannot support both a free market and intellectual property because the (flawd) concept of intellectual property restricts what one can trade on the free market.

If two people invent something independently of each other in the same time frame, what right does the government or anyone have to say that one cannot bring his own invention to the market?

As long as there is "intellectual property" there is no free market.
Reply #44 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Piracy is caused by a potential buyer realizing that it is relatively safe to download something illegally.


The thing is though that people *can* copy games easily and without fear. DRM doesn't make it any more difficult for the pirate, as he can just find a crack or whatever. I think it would be pretty hard to police P2P too; if it was easy then I expect they would already be doing it.

Because of that, the publishers need to provide an incentive for people *not* to copy their stuff. They do this by addressing the issues I highlighted.

No one should have the casual ability to decide whether they should pay for a product.


People should get paid for their work, I agree. Just as I expect that software to work properly when I get it.

When a company releases crappy, buggy code and charges a heavy price for it, I have no sympathy at all when it's pirated. Infact I'd hope the damage to their bottom line provided a warning to other publishers who would release sloppy work.








Reply #45 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Shall: I've had legit CDs fail on me several times on my last computer because the CD drive was somehow bad (according to EA). I bought the games from Wal*Mart, they were legal, but the on-screen dialog box was telling me to insert the correct disc. Worked alright at the office! Hmm.


Ditto, I had one game that no matter what I tried it would not install. I finally had to give in, and DOWNLOAD a cracked copy to install with my cd-key X.x My current problem is that most games I have require "insert cd" and while I could keep a spindle next to my computer and spin through it every time I want to play a certain game I may not be able to locate it. My solution: buy a 250gb hd, and in addition to everything else, the top 10 games have "mini" images (if available) sitting on the hd loaded through dameon tools (4 at a time so I don't adjust it often).

I am very much in favor of the over internet verify legit (no image needed) but I like 1998-2002 games.
Reply #46 from JoeUser Forums Top
Has anyone in this discussion on the pirate side ever written something creative, had it copied illegally, and thoght 'well, gee. it's okay because i suck at what i do anyway and i provide terrible service'?

I didn't think so.

has anyone on the pirate side ever written a book that would sell, composed a song that would sell, or done anything remarkably creative and original? I actually want to know this because my belief is that you are all retarded. I need to know. Is it simple stupidity that drives someone to believe piracy is okay? I'm not being sarcastic at all. Really. Who is the smartest pirate among you?
Reply #47 from Sins Forums Top
Have you ever been shafted by an asshole selling you faulty software that didn't work on your computer that more than met the requirements, was never fixed, and couldn't be returned?

Some developers have no business coding software, most publishers have no business publishing it. I've been bitten so many times I don't ever buy a brand new game now. The sole exception is Stardock, I'll even pre-order from them. The reviewers lie more often than not, you can't even trust them to just leave out everything they didn't notice or play long enough to see. Most of them are so lazy you wouldn't be able to recognize the game from having played it if you redacted all the identifying labels. Functional demos are downright rare these days. Even here, you had to wait weeks to try Sins legitimately. In their favor, it was actually a real demo instead of the scripted bullshit first campaign mission they're sending out for the typical RTS these days. Patience is a virtue very few people have. To not get screwed, you often have to wait weeks after a game has come out for the shit to hit the fan.

Music has the radio, motion pictures have TV previews, and since good demos are no longer the in thing to do, software has piracy. A sensible reason to pirate before you buy, if technically illegal.
Reply #48 from PolMach Forums Top
When FADE is activated, it affects gameplay aspects of the game. This may include (but is not limited to) the following: reduced accuracy of some weapons, reduced weapon performance, increased enemy hit endurance and increased player injuries.


Let's not forget just how badly a bugged copy protection can ruin it for the legit players. Remember, kids, all software is buggy unless it has no budget (say medical real-time software where death is a reality if a bug shows up). The gaming industry has proven that nicely. So developers who use this FADE protection are pretty much guaranteeing that some small minority of people who paid for it are getting a sub-quality game.

This is why games like Titan Quest die - the company screws over legit users, while pirates (eventually) are able to get the crack just right.

As for this topic, it should probably be closed. It's clear the original poster just wants another pointless flame war (and has gotten his wish).
Reply #49 from PolMach Forums Top
Also: http://www.gameburnworld.com/protections_fade.shtml

Note that while cracking the game isn't an option, making a CD image via Daemon Tools or Alcohol 120% is. So once again, the pirates have a good solution, and a legit minority of users have been given the shaft.

I'm glad I only buy Steam and Stardock stuff.
Reply #50 from Sins Forums Top
Has anyone in this discussion on the pirate side ever written something creative, had it copied illegally, and thoght 'well, gee. it's okay because i suck at what i do anyway and i provide terrible service'?I didn't think so. has anyone on the pirate side ever written a book that would sell, composed a song that would sell, or done anything remarkably creative and original? I actually want to know this because my belief is that you are all retarded. I need to know. Is it simple stupidity that drives someone to believe piracy is okay? I'm not being sarcastic at all. Really. Who is the smartest pirate among you?


Yeah. Yeah I have. I write historical fiction and yes I was plagiarized way back in High School and it was pretty awful, especially considering the piece was given an NCTE award. Get off your high horse.

I think you should stop putting your foot in your mouth now.