Carriers, the new spam for v1.1

what? hangar bays hold MULTIPLE squads. They also have considerably more armor and don't take up fleet capacity. Especially as Advent/TEC, hangars are very worth it

I think so, and thankfully it will cure a lot of the lrm woes. It's not going to stop people from making lrf spams though. I know I'm still going to be making lrf's, because even with the 1.1 fix, lrfs are still the backbone of early fleets for the amounts of damage they'll do. What I do think is going to happen is instead of doing heavy lrf spams, people will start making carriers, flak, or both to support the fleet and make it more balanced. Pure lrf spams will be easily counterable now.

Also, as Advent lover, I can abuse telikinetic push on the halcyon. That ability really lowers the effectiveness of fighters. I won't say it nullifies them, but it makes them very ineffective. This won't completely stave off a fighter/bomber spam, but it's gonna at least stall long enough for the flak to get there, and in the mean time the fleet around the halcyon is destroying shit with their nice higher firing rate (courtesy of the Halcyon).

TEC have flak burst on the Kol which if microed will mop the floor against a fighter spam. The Dunov has magnetize, which is quite comical, you can watch fighters/bombers crash into whatever has been magnetized.

Vasari are on the short end of the stick, but I do bleieve they will become the fighter/bomber race. They're tough, and the carrier cap has a health aura that will heal them in battle. Assailants, fighters, and bombers all use phase missiles with Vasari. I can easily see Vasari fleets becoming much stronger with a fleet make-up of Assailants, mostly fighters, and some bombers. The beauty is that upgrading phase missiles will upgrade the entire fleet. No Advent ship will be safe.

Should be interesting.

@ rafi - in v1.1, the carrier frigates will be able to hold 2-3 squadrons, the same as the hangers. And so what if hangers have more armor or don't take up fleet supply. The carriers are mobile, and I would rather have a mobile force anyday.

@ Raging Amish - Agreed, LRFs are still going to be huge damage dealers, especially early game for Vasari since carriers are tier 3.

You're somewhat comparing apples and oranges here. Unless it's earlier in a game and resources are in short supply, you will still need to build defenses on your important planets. If it's early in the game and you have some extra capacity, then sure, you can use ships alone for your defenses.

However, once you need to grow your fleet and have it be more mobile, upgrading your fleet capacity can become rather expensive. As such, it is far cheaper to build some static air defense so that you can use more of your fleet expanding while equally keeping your fleet supply as small as possible for as long as possible, thus increasing your net income.

Make sense?

If SINS turns into what EVE-Online is now (Cap Fleets Online), it's truly very sad.

2-3 squads per frig carrier is a bit much for a frig. Advent drone hosts are annoying enough as is without each having 3 squads.

i always play as tec and like to have my fleets based around a few powerful ships backed by large numbers of fighters, so for me this is great as i can now have half the number of carriers for half the cost

I want to point out that carriers were essentially 'made bigger' from a gameplay perspective. This means that while they will carry more squadrons, and are quite a bit sturdier, they are significantly more expensive in resources, fleet supply and build time than their v1.05 counterparts. I can't recall the exact changes, but they should be about 10-20% cheaper on a per squadron basis compared to 1.05.

I've also seen quite a few comments questioning the Carrier capital ship's role now that carrier cruisers start with as many or more squadrons at far less cost. I don't think players need worry too much, as their weapons, abilities, and increased squadron capacity and overall power scaling as they level up should more than offset their relatively high price.

Heh, spamming light carriers vs the AI already seems to be the best tactic IMO (the AI never bothers to build more flak, though this might change) and have had some success with it in multiplayer (though I almost never play multiplayer anymore). If they are buffing strike craft AND nerfing flak dps (and buffing strike craft build rate if I'm reading this right), that seems to me to be a very bad idea.

Unless they add in some sort of new counter or make bombers less powerful capital ships are really going to get hammered, bomber wings already rip them open pretty easily and now we will have alot more of them hanging around.


Edit: bah, the above post was added while I typed. if it's only around 20% more squadrons for cost/cap that seems to me to be alot more reasonable, though I wonder how well it will work out with the nerfed flak damage. I can't wait to find out!

Does any one know if they are also going to increase the number of squadrons for the carrier capital ship? I asked on the v1.1 patch post but no one answerd.

Sounds like a no to me.

@ Steve MacKay - Honestly, I don't know if the abilities are worth the difference in cost. Maybe if I already had 30 cruisers and wanted the repair cloud - maybe. I am really anxious to try out v1.1 and give you guys honest feedback. Perhaps once we start playing it we can fiddle with the balance of cruiser and capital carriers.

@ Everyone else. Ok, so now that we agree we need to build lots of flak and fighters as the counter to the enemy carriers, we need to build more flak and fighters. I feel spam coming on. Perhaps there should be a flak gun on HCs?

I agree that there is the possibility of spamming now. Iv never been a big fan of having rediculous amounts of fighter in a battle. I tend to agree with the star trek idial that in space the bigger your ship the more room you have for shields and weapons. Small craft are simply not as usefull as big ships. BUTTT this game is set up differently and this all kinda worries me...

As far as the HCs having flak guns... absolutely not. The only real counter you have right now for them is strike craft and LRMs but now that strik craft will be swarming everywere... and LRMs are very susptable to strike craft... well lets just say i wanna actually play 1.1 befor i start complaining too much about balance. I have faith that IC will try their utmost to deliver a balanced product. Wich i deffinitly apreciate. Its why they have my money

Ok, I think the balance between CC's and flak will be pretty close to what it should be. Now as it stands one flak can protect a cap/flt (properly managed) against 4 bombers squads. Which is way op. The nerf to flak makes it closer to 1:2.5 Fk/bombers a little less with fighters. With the boost in strike craft at least the counter is clear and present. Less so with some of the ships and abilities in 1.5. What I think this is going to translate into in game is peeps will have to start making flak to support there flts instead of ignoring them or using them to counter other units. YAH! Also peeps that are good at managing there strike groups will be rewarded for the effort. Even in 1.5 I've had great success with strike groups taking out enemy caps, because peeps ignore flak. Duh. I fear this will not continue. The real reason for the boost is HC suppression. I hope it works out too. We shall see. Come on 1.1 arrive will you.

Maybe i just wasnt using them right but flak frigs never seemed to work right for me. According this this they were over powered, i always thought they were underpowered and a bit useless so i just gave up on them. I would have like 10+ flaks with my fleets and would still get them torn apart by strike craft so i just put the ephasis on building more fighters rather then flaks...? if this is wrong, what was i doing incorrectly?

@thetraviler
Fighters are better at defending the flt without a doubt. Also properly managed flak can make em just ineffective. Their might be a few left here and their but when the squad drops below fifty % their just pretty. If you watch the carriers make 1 fighter or 1 bomber at a time. Without pulling them out to recharge their am and to rebuild full squads they become ducks or decoys.
Now say you have fighters and they have some flak. (situational demo) Watch the empire tree see what squad the flak are attacking. Pull that unit away from what your attacking. Voala the enemy flak follow until enemy counters your move. Ai never counters this just fyi. Most human players under estimate SC all together. While your playing this cat and mouse with the flak and doing other flt micro that is needed. Then send in the bombers. 3 or 4 passes with 8 to 10 bombers and a cap is crying for help. The difficulty to this approach is making yourself make the carriers. As they are not front line units. Rather support units with sharp teeth.

I welcome carrier/squadron spam. Being a huge SW nut, I feel there needs to be more importance on fighters/bombers/squadrons/carriers. They really can influence battle.

- PR-0927