Outposts? I think we should have 'em in the game.

from Sins Forums
I think Stardock should put Outposts in the game.

They'd work identically to barren Asteroids in terms of mechanics (making them easy to apply to the game):

0 Population: This isn't a colony now.

1 colonization upgrade: Hey the crew need somewhere to sleep.

1 shelters upgrade: The crew quarters need some protection against vacuum.

2 explore: Not sure how it would work. Maybe for allowing race specials (explained below) & random finds.

0 logicstics: Again, this isn't a colony now. But researching the appropriate technology should open up the same as it would for other worlds.

2 tactical: This a military outpost. It needs defenses.

Placement: I feel that these Outposts should be put in jump point locations where a asteroid or planet isn't available for colonization. It sucks to have barren and unusable areas that may inconvienently not a allow a static defense. Nor is it fun to watch pirate fleets jump through barren jump-points and ignore the fleet stationed there (forcing the player to wait for the pirate fleet to jump first so they'd know which colony they will jump to). Also, for some areas we could allow race specials for placing an outpost in a specific jump location. Here's my thinking on this:

Wormholes: Yes we should be allowed to place an Outpost at their jump points. If you don't think so then go watch the ENTIRE Star Trek Deep Space 9 show then come back and explain why not!

Asteroids: Yes we should be allowed to have them there. We have asteroid colonies. So why not?

Gas Giants: Yes we should be allowed to have them there too. For convience sake!

Space Junks: Yes we should be allowed to have them there too. This could, also, be where the TEC race special could be at. The TEC race special here would allow for higher than average salvage for starships here (50-100% extra). (this would be due to both the TEC's economic abilities & having salage experts in the these junkyards)

Plasma Storms: Yes we should be allowed to have them there too. This could, also, be where the Vasari race special could be at. It would prevent antimatter regeneration for all enemy ships that enter the jump-point. (due to them having a mastery of phase jump tech)

Magnetic Storms: Yes we should be allowed to have them there too. This could, also, be where the Advent race special could be at. It would prevent shield regeneration for all enemy ships that enter the jump-point. (this is mostly for balance sake. if you can think of another please post it)

Stars: Not quite sure how that would work unless you wanted to create some kind of star forge maybe.  ;)

Well that perty much sums it up. I think it should possibly be placed as a high-level civilian technology, but not necessarily. I DON'T think they should be made with a command point requirement attached. They could be built from colony ships or a new special type of vessel.

Thanks for reading! Please post your comments on this.  :)


strategy
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Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
my 4 the advent special it should be something about cultre like being able to spreed cultre or slow it down or stop it? and wat does salvage do anyways?
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Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Stars: Not quite sure how that would work unless you wanted to create some kind of star forge maybe.


how about a "Star Dock" that would allow cap ships to park and recharge their antimater at 2x the star's bonus rate.

hehe...stardock.
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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
First of all, StarDock? That's terrible. I think it should be a credit generating solar farm.

Also Gas giants should be colonizable (high-tier special research just like volcanic or ice planets required), and generate loads of credits and trade (kinda along the same lines of cloud city from starwars). I soppose that an outpost would work too.

I don't think that plasma storms, wormholes and the like should be colonizeable, if anything they should damage shields, slow movement, or something else that makes them a hasard, they are storms after all.

I do like the outpost idea for the asteroid fields and space junk. They should cost money to run, and be a pre-req for orbital mines or the new "salvage station", which would be a TEC special that produces ore.
Also the station could be upgradeable to a military station which comes hand in hand with more tactical slots and built in defenses.

Mabye you could do something special for the other races in the plasma storms or whatever, i'm open to suggestions.

but yeah, i like the idea a hell of alot better than setting up standalone mining operations on dead asteroids.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
yeah Im for this idea too it sounds pretty cool.
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Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
>>>Yommers,I think, based on the actual (as in non-phase jump) distances between planets, using a planet as an outpost wouldn't be practical, mainly because you have to supply outposts and outposts don't produce income. Mabye on a smaller object, like an asteroid, but planets are too valuble for their raw materials.Back to the main issue, culture.


>Perhaps not in the economic sense, however outposts could still serve a strategic purpose. Suppose you have an outpost two planets away from the enemy's empire, now suppose you were able to produce ships from this outpost. Even if you couldn't use the outpost for producing ships it would still give you advanced warning of enemy fleets (i.e. numbers) approaching your valuable planets. The point is who cares if you lose an outpost, they're cheap. Also any outpost, almost by definition, is synonymous with trade. That's the whole point of outposts, as supply depo's and trade depo's, not to mention the fact that they often serve as points of cultural exchange.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Two things Yom,

First, I think you may have posted on the wrong forum (the one where that quote of mine came from),

And second, Perhaps you would build an outpost on a desert plant, where more resources would be required to support the population then you could acquire from the planet itself, but nonetheless, I'm talking on a bigger scale. Think of it this way. In earlier centuries, cities (in this case planets) formed strong points that were relatively far apart, in resource-rich areas. Outposts would be set up along the borders of an empire to warn from impending attacks, in areas of stategic importance. This basically means that not all outposts are built in resource-rich areas, and if they were it would be purely coincidental.

If, however you are talking about economic outposts, they would simply be a prerequisite for founding a colony/extracting resources, so in a way, its much like when you first found a colony, without any infastructure.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Upon further reflection, your response was unrelated to that forum, so putting it on this page makes sense.

-and you get brownie points for your foresight :P
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
I don't know, this is not Civ, you can't put an outpost anywhere you want in space, just put an extra Cap in locations that you wanted to guard. Other wise...there will be out posts EVERYWHERE. Put an out post near a star or wormhole is just plain dumb, why not settle between phase lanes, then? Besides, we already got asteroids. Finally, bunnies don't want to mate in an out post. Case closed.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
When you think about it, "Dead Asteroids" and Neutral Extractors are kinda like little outposts. The Neutral Extractors are just big enough to support a mining colony, and the Dead Asteroids function a lot like what you described as being big enough for a military outpost.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
Upon further reflection, your response was unrelated to that forum, so putting it on this page makes sense.-and you get brownie points for your foresight


1or2?
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Two things Yom,First, I think you may have posted on the wrong forum (the one where that quote of mine came from),And second, Perhaps you would build an outpost on a desert plant, where more resources would be required to support the population then you could acquire from the planet itself, but nonetheless, I'm talking on a bigger scale. Think of it this way. In earlier centuries, cities (in this case planets) formed strong points that were relatively far apart, in resource-rich areas. Outposts would be set up along the borders of an empire to warn from impending attacks, in areas of stategic importance. This basically means that not all outposts are built in resource-rich areas, and if they were it would be purely coincidental.If, however you are talking about economic outposts, they would simply be a prerequisite for founding a colony/extracting resources, so in a way, its much like when you first found a colony, without any infastructure.


I suppose but I think we're getting sidetracked here. The point of an outpost would be to operate as an outpost. DEF-outstation: a station in a remote or sparsely populated location:frontier settlement: a settlement on the frontier of civilization. So lets suppose that yes an outpost was a preamble to a colony, however a colony is not inevitable. Suppose you just want an outpost because by George you like outposts for adv. warning. And yes it would be like founding a colony, only it would be called an outpost and not a colony. Resources gathering is not the issue, but then again what does an outpost do other then stay out on post?
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
When you think about it, when you first colonize a world and it is just 10 population, it is kind of like an outpost. It isn't self-sufficient, and requires money to run from the Homeworlds. Then you upgrade it and start building some infrastructure and pretty soon, it is a self-sufficient productive colony!
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
True Cykur. I think an outpost would add a certain element to the game that is missing, in particular in the early stages. Imagine if a colony frigate had the option of setting up an outpost that uses, oh say.. .02 creds ps instead of the massive overhead of a planet. Early in the game I could see outposts being very useful since your empire lacks large reserves of creds/med/cryst etc. An outpost could be used to spread advanced culture into a remote region until your ready to actually colonize it. Or the way I prefer to have an outpost would be as a front line station. The benefit would be that if a large enemy fleet shows up you would only lose a cheap outpost and that planet could be used for a buffer. Culture from the outpost could temporarily prevent the enemy from automatically gobbling it up and tipping the balance of power. So what i'm rambling, think of Star Trek and star bases. Wonder if they're being used in the mod?
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
That was 1 btw,

>>>I suppose but I think we're getting sidetracked here. The point of an outpost would be to operate as an outpost. DEF-outstation: a station in a remote or sparsely populated location:frontier settlement: a settlement on the frontier of civilization. So lets suppose that yes an outpost was a preamble to a colony, however a colony is not inevitable. Suppose you just want an outpost because by George you like outposts for adv. warning. And yes it would be like founding a colony, only it would be called an outpost and not a colony. Resources gathering is not the issue, but then again what does an outpost do other then stay out on post?


That sounds like a good middle ground, outposts may be built on a planet at a fraction of the cost of a colony and allow buildings to be built in the gravity well, but they require credits to function. Or something along those lines.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
1 will do LOL

I think it would be great if you could use outposts to build other structures. That would certainly add alot of flexibility especially when trying to keep Cap and Frig factories close to the front line. Chaos I SAY!
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Wormholes: Yes we should be allowed to place an Outpost at their jump points. If you don't think so then go watch the ENTIRE Star Trek Deep Space 9 show then come back and explain why not!

Current coding limitations set 1 wormhole to 1 wormhole. Since there are strategic elements to SINS, the limitation works. Also, and I quote (poorly) ""They did it on Voyager" should be an excuse for anything -including breathing -ever."

Asteroids: Yes we should be allowed to have them there. We have asteroid colonies. So why not?

asteroids are tough enough to set up shop on. You can add turrets, some hangars, but they are minor stepping stones on the path of galactic conquest

Gas Giants: Yes we should be allowed to have them there too. For convience sake!

7 Deadly Sins -this mod allows colonization and tactical structures. Done.

Space Junks: Yes we should be allowed to have them there too. This could, also, be where the TEC race special could be at. The TEC race special here would allow for higher than average salvage for starships here (50-100% extra). (this would be due to both the TEC's economic abilities & having salage experts in the these junkyards)

Sanford and Sons in Space... No. There are space junks and there are ship graveyards (7 Deadly Sins). Junk is junk... graveyards are free ships.

Plasma Storms: Yes we should be allowed to have them there too. This could, also, be where the Vasari race special could be at. It would prevent antimatter regeneration for all enemy ships that enter the jump-point. (due to them having a mastery of phase jump tech)

Can't colonize it, so no outpost.

Magnetic Storms: Yes we should be allowed to have them there too. This could, also, be where the Advent race special could be at. It would prevent shield regeneration for all enemy ships that enter the jump-point. (this is mostly for balance sake. if you can think of another please post it)

What about in maps without Mag storms or only 1? Should the advent hunker down here the entire game? Nice fluff, bad implementation.

Stars: Not quite sure how that would work unless you wanted to create some kind of star forge maybe.

Rogue Stars -7 Deadly Sins. Mod allows colonization and the travel time across such an expanse at 72% speed means the bombers and fighters can rip stuff to hell.


At major planets... sure and with full strike capability anywhere in the gravity well -just no 1 shot instapop capitals. needs heavy anti-fighter/bomber weapons to neutralize bomber/fighter spammage against them.

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
I wish you could just toss a constructor module out the back of a SOVA, whenever you wanted to!!!

Not only could you build bases in uncolonizable zones, but you could dump out 50 constructors at an enemy fortified planet and build a fleet of defense cannons and hanger bays!!!

I haven't tried it yet, but you might have to "own" the gravity well first...
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Ya, deploying construction frigates out of like colony ships or Capitals would be awesome, I think it would make more sense with the current setup, then the construction ships could build the mines instead the colony ships. Then the colony frigate could just pass through and jettison a mining crew, rather than stop and waste time building the mine themselves.

One questions though, would building the con ships take credits or antimatter?
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
I wish you could just toss a constructor module out the back of a SOVA, whenever you wanted to!!!

Not only could you build bases in uncolonizable zones, but you could dump out 50 constructors at an enemy fortified planet and build a fleet of defense cannons and hanger bays!!!

I haven't tried it yet, but you might have to "own" the gravity well first...


a, deploying construction frigates out of like colony ships or Capitals would be awesome, I think it would make more sense with the current setup, then the construction ships could bui;d the mines instead.

One question though, would building the con ships take credits or antimatter?


I think the unspoken premise is that construction frigates are using resource supply lines and infrastructure at friendly planets to provide the materials used to build stuff. You have to figure that a couple construction frigates in hostile space might be a little perplexed where to get the hundreds of tons of processed materials to build a massive weapons platform or a space station that houses fighter craft.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
True Crykur> Asked Major Stress if he's going to add starbase's in the Star Trek Angels mod. Still waiting for a response. If he does it will be interesting to see what their role is, and then maybe all the posts about "outposts" will be at peace (they'll get renamed "I think starbase's should..." lol).
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
First, i thought somewhere in those 700+ posts on the star trek thread was talk of making out posts and starbases both options to build around planets. An out post would have some combination of maybe a research station and a fighter bay with 1 squad or maybe a trad post instead of a civ research. It would take both some logistics and tactical slots and would be able to defend its immediate area with its weapons. A starbase would be MUCH bigger, have probably a civ, a military, and a trade post. along with a full fighter bay and a repair facility and some stinkin gnarly weapons and shields. If you wanted to build this it would probably take almost all of both your logistic and tactical slots.


BUT back to THIS topic.

I think a good addition, though maybe for an expansion, would be to create another kind of ship that is made from the capital ship yard. This construction ship would take 1 command point just like the other caps and would have very limited weapons. It would be moved to where ever, and be told to build an "outpost" or "Starbase" or whatever you want to call it... That location would then be protected by a very heavily shielded very strongly armed weapons platform. It would not be able to build other structure around it. and it would not be movable. The only way to get rid of it would be to scuttle it. I think it should be slightly less expencive then a captial ship. But would take some research to unlock. Maybe even a few upgrade techs as well. So that its available early game but becomes alot more valuable later on as its upgraded.
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
ok so my idea isnt exactly on this particular topic, but its my oppinion on how to implement the outpost idea...
Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top
First, i thought somewhere in those 700+ posts on the star trek thread was talk of making out posts and starbases both options to build around planets. An out post would have some combination of maybe a research station and a fighter bay with 1 squad or maybe a trad post instead of a civ research. It would take both some logistics and tactical slots and would be able to defend its immediate area with its weapons. A starbase would be MUCH bigger, have probably a civ, a military, and a trade post. along with a full fighter bay and a repair facility and some stinkin gnarly weapons and shields. If you wanted to build this it would probably take almost all of both your logistic and tactical slots.

>That's about the just of what I asked him. I apologized in advance because I figured it was in there somewhere... just didn't feel like digging around in mounds of texts.
Think that makes sense though with a ship being able to build a starbase or outpost. Maybe some kind of construction capital ship. Reminds me of MCV's from red alert ;p 
Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top
haha MCVs nice... man, i miss the good old days
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
Back on topic. You want outposts? What do you call those dead asteroids that only get fortification and tactical slots? Sounds like an outpost to me.