economy always in deficit, what am i doing wrong?

How do you guys keep production capcity at 100% all the time without going into huge deficits? When the game first starts I quick buy one colony ship and go off colonizing. I quick buy one factory and then put down a market then lab then repeat until i run out of space. Each new planet I will quick buy a new factory then put down market labs etc again. When I do this I can never run at 100% with taxes around 35-40%. Am I just doing it wrong?
45,077 views 14 replies
Reply #1 Top
Don't be in such a hurry to fill up all the space on your planets. Most improvements have a weekly upkeep cost, and you simply don't have enough taxpayers at the start to support such a large infastructure.

Also, lower your taxes for at least the first couple months. Your population growth gets boosted by 25%(?) when your approval rating is greater than 75%, and is doubled when your approval is 100%.
Reply #2 Top
Most improvements have a weekly upkeep cost,


Also while they are building, there is a construction cost...more money loss early on.

Braddock8's tip on making your approval 100% is a golden rule for early game. You may be bleeding some cash right off the bat, but it'll balance out once the population is enough to support your empire. Just notice how quickly those darn Torians get up and moving. Super Breeder makes them get up and moving very quickly.

Just also know, each colony you snag will cost you 12bc a week right off the bat. That 250 colonists won't be bringing in enough taxes to offset that, so expand wisely.

As for how do you keep your production at 100% all the time in TA, it's not always an option. The economy and maintenance costs got adjusted in TA and it's now a bit harder in the beginning to get moving. This does get offsetted however by being able (if option is turned on) to get other race's econ techs and thus their passive bonuses and the new Immense map.
Reply #3 Top
Each new planet I will quick buy a new factory then put down market labs etc again.


There's your biggest problem. Assuming we're dealing with basic factories, that's 438bc per new planet if you're not leasing, and if you are leasing it's still ~100some odd (don't remember exactly) with several BC weekly on top of that.

Although the advice you've already been given is helpful, try actually building your factories instead of rush buying them (except for the first one, possibly two on the homeworld) if you decide you must immediately build factories on new colonies and proceed from there. Your results should be much better.

Reply #4 Top
Also, if you put a factory on, say, a 300% bonus tile, you PAY three times the upkeep (specifically, you pay for three times the output).

I had one planet that due to a 700% bonus tile lost me 130bc a week. My solution was to build markets over a good portion of the factories (except the bonus one) - production didn't slow down significantly yet I was in the green again.
Reply #5 Top
Also, if you put a factory on, say, a 300% bonus tile, you PAY three times the upkeep (specifically, you pay for three times the output).


To clarify, you are paying for the upkeep on the factory along with the cost of the production.

With each new colony I get in the early game, I have a glut of research, which throws my economy all out of whack. Instead of changing the sliders what I do is set the new planet to be focused on military or social production so it draws away from the research points. It doesn't change the budget whole lot, but it helps (i.e. I am still researching at the rate I want to, but it isn't killing the budget).

And to reinforce what's been said, you don't need to build a million things at first. Balance is the name of the game here.
Reply #6 Top
Also, try designating some planets to have nothing but econ structures on them. Specializing planets for specific purposes is generally the optimal way to go.

Kzinti empire2.JPG Sentient species taste better...
Reply #7 Top
Anyone still scratching their heads over this - try looking at it this way. This is going to sound like "Mum & Dad" in full flow re "lesson of life No4 - Money". Remember those lectures? I know, its embarrassing, I'm giving those lectures to my kids now :LOL:. Please dont take it that way, its an analogy to try and get over the right mindset.

Throughout the game you cant do anything unless you can pay for it - there's no Galactic Credit Card, its cash on delivery! Bare with this, I'm not being silly ...

Its not like current real life where many buy on credit card and pay back later, without even thinking about it until the card company gets boring and actually wants their money back (been there, done that - still do if I'm honest :LOL: ). Try that approach in the game with Leasing everything and see what happens ....

Approach every aspect of the game (particularly the early game) with the mindset "how do I pay for this?". Once the mindset changes, then you start to look closer on how money is earned, made available and the relative Value of each item - ie getting more "bang for your buck". Once you do that, you find yourself planning ahead on how to generate the funds to do what you want to do.

eg later you will spend money like it was going out of fashion defending the Human Race from the Galactic Nasties, so in the early game plan ahead and startup money generating planets only with economic buildings, roughly one economic planet for every 3-5 other planet types depending on your preferred play style (plus 2 or 3 factory ones to build the economic facility) .... etc. There's even a viable Strategy of all economic buildings, but thats off this topic.

In the early game, none built yet, so your only way (as such) of regular cash generation is population paying taxes. That takes time, and poses a few problems to solve as a consequence - but thats fine, its a Strategy Game, not a shoot-em-up ... its supposed to give you conundrums to solve ...

Regards
Zy
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Reply #8 Top
When you colonize a planet, try to build first pop growth accelerator buildings, best is (in TA) the recruiting center, otherwise a fertility clinic (assuming you already got the appropriate tech perfected), then only a factory.

As a rule of thumb, don't rush buy factories during the initial colony rush on every world, since your economy will be in the red for a while, almost every bc count. You can still rush buy a factory on high PQ worlds (16+), but only if you got enough cash to support your deficiting econ for at least 10 turns, since it will help those large worlds to be functionnal faster later on.

As I said in the "starport on every planet" thread, a nice social building queue (with or without starport, it's up to you) could be:

1)Recruiting Center (or fertility clinic) => the faster the pop growth, the faster your econ will get back in the green.
2)Factory (one single factory, in some cases, it may be usefull to order building an older one, since it will be build faster and cost less weekly maintenance)
3) Embassy => Strong Influence, even if the "cultural victory" is turned off, is a key for strong empires, since first at all, it helps increase your overall tourism income, and also helps to future flipsiding those low PQ worlds you won't colonize yet, letting the AI colonize and grow it for you ;)
4) Entertainement Network (or any entertaining building with only 1 bc/week maintenance, upgrade them later on) => high moral on every worlds means higher tax revenue. On late game (bigger maps), you can, in TA, push your tax load to 79% (!) keeping approval over 80-90% with only one farm and one entertainement improvement on every average worlds (and I have to say at least one morale starbase and/or each morale trade good at your disposal) :)
5) Starport (if needed) or an Orbital Fleet Manager, since this building is maintenance free, place it wisely on some strategical border worlds, it just use a tile, that you could change later for an industrial/econ/r&d improvement when you'll be sure it won't be attacked.
6) Another factory on initial PQ 8+ world, if needed, otherwise an econ building fit here.
7) Econ building
7bis) A farming improvement (one per planet is merely enough on every common worlds, beware for incoming low morale due to overcrowding) ONLY if you're near the top pop planet cap, since otherwise it is a weekly maintenance cost lost, cheap, but still lost.
8) R&D building => R&D early on without any labs is fine, if you set wisely your 3 social spending sliders, those buildings have high maintenance cost, a young empire can't afford them. (Technologist party ftw :p ), but it is wise to build at least one lab on every planet, since if you focus R&D you'll get a much better bonus with even a tiny lab than no lab at all.
9) DONT OVERLOAD SOCIAL BUILDING QUEUES EARLY ON IF YOU DONT WANT TO BOTHER WITH MICROMANAGEMENT WHEN NEW BUILDINGS UPGRADE BECOME AVAILABLE!!! :)

Don't be affraid to run a deficit economy, try to keep global spending around 80-100%, but most important of all keep morale at 100% during the colony rush (100% morale means *2 pop growth, *8 with super-breeder ability, 99% morale means only *1.25 pop growth), it will be your life insurance later on.

Don't forget to observe how AI do: most of the time they wait their worlds to be almost pop full before building anything on them, only buidling on some somewhat strategic worlds (at least at their eyes, even on masochistic, AI don't alway make good use of those special bonus tiles).

Only research (or trade for) better factories (and labs) when your economy can bear it. It is when global spending is at 100% and you earn =~ +50 to 200bc each turn. Or when all your buildings queues are almost empty, but better then research (or trade for) econ improvement upgrade (or morale improvement).

Needless to say, don't neglect your military, otherwise you'll be quickly eaten, by other civs, even those who are supposed to be on the "good side of the light" (damn those pesky warmongy Altarians, they looks like humans, that's not for nothing! :p ), but don't build a big army unless you plan an early invasion since it will tear down your still fragile econ.

A wise move could be to sell those already obsolete ships when you get new military techs available (upgrade ship design often), but IMO I prefer upgrade my defensive fleet often, since I don't want those aliens to know how I design my ships! :D
I'd rather prefer selling them weaps techs of a given area (usually beams weaps) since I'll then know that I'll have to focus almost only on shields research for defence, and MD &/or Missiles as weaps.
Another wise move, if you don't want to build your defensive fleet yourself, is to trade for AI crappy ships for some low tech goodies (i.e. sensors (BUT DONT TRADE SENSORS IV if you havent build the must have "Eye of the Universe" wonder), or R&D tech if you successfully managed to have research treaty from everyone ;)

But I'm now off topic, and time to me to go party, so see ya everyone and fly safe!
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Reply #9 Top
.Throughout the game you cant do anything unless you can pay for it - there's no Galactic Credit Card, its cash on delivery!

Not entirely true...you can always use leases, which can be quite useful in some situations. :)

Kzinti empire2.JPG Sentient species taste better...

Reply #10 Top
And sometimes some leases are cheaper than the full cash price. ;)
Reply #11 Top
One thing that is often good to lease in particular is the Mind Control Center with it's 100% econ bonus, if you cant immediately afford to buy it. It will pay for itself in very short order!

Kzinti empire2.JPG Sentient species taste better...
Reply #12 Top
One thing that is often good to lease in particular is the Mind Control Center with it's 100% econ bonus, if you cant immediately afford to buy it. It will pay for itself in very short order! Sentient species taste better...


Oh yeah, speaking of. I didn't see DA get a patch w/ the 1.95 Ta patch yesterday...so it's safe to say the DL/DA MCC is still in it's 'broken' state.
Reply #13 Top
Try that approach in the game with Leasing everything and see what happens ....


Personally, I'm not a leasing fan

Regards
Zy
Reply #14 Top
I wasnt either, until I started trying ZYWs.  :HOT: 

Kzinti empire2.JPG Sentient species taste better...