Need help with early game...

I just had a few questions about early game strategy (I play against AI's only... *deep sigh*)...

I) Form what I've gathered, it seems like the biggest key to sucess in late game is to planet grab in ealry game. But I have trouble doing this, since it's hard enough for me to build a small fleet to remove militias, but how can you make a defensive fleet? If I have more than three points that I need to defend, I get swarmed by enemies. My counter to this was to build the maximum amount of stationary weapons and hanger bays, but it takes funds away from fleet.

II) Is research important? I've heard you should wait until you have an excess amount of resources before you start researching, but I found if I don't start researching economy early, I never have an excess of resources... And is military more important than economy & culture?

III) Is it better to have four capital ships or 50 basic frigates (or 20 heavy cruisers)

IV) Is spreading your culture important at all?

Heh, sorry for all the newb questions...

43,038 views 13 replies
Reply #1 Top
i) going expansion or making a fleet really depends on your opponent,static defense just sucks. Don't build them and go for extra ships if you have the resources

ii) Search the forum for the answer.They are plenty of them

iii) 1 capital ship is better.

IV)They are useless in general because the payback take too long. This like other research such as planet population increase/refinery are one of the flaws in current SIN. Don't bother with culture if you purpose is to beat your opponent.

All above are for MP, in SP u can play whatever you want and still beat the unfair IA easily..
Reply #2 Top

You say you're getting swarmed by multiple fleets (as though they're all allied against you). In the Game Options settings, do you play with "Locked Teams" or "Unlocked Teams"? Try locking the teams which ends diplomacy and makes it an "every man for himself" game and that way the AI won't gang up on you, at least not as allies.
Reply #3 Top
i) Your first cap ship should be a colonizer. Send it into battle first, so all the enemies fire on it and it can act as a buffer. Then send in your backup frigates as support. Your cap ship should be able to take out at least 5 frigates, possibly even 10, by itself even on low levels.

ii) Choose whatever suits your style of play

iii) Depends on the situation

iv)
IV)They are useless in general because the payback take too long. This like other research such as planet population increase/refinery are one of the flaws in current SIN. Don't bother with culture if you purpose is to beat your opponent. All above are for MP, in SP u can play whatever you want and still beat the unfair IA easily..


This isn't really true. If you don't have enough cap ships or broadcast stations to convert newly conquered planets, you won't be able to settle them. Also, it is very easy on large maps to culture bomb a particular planet. Unless you do something quickly, they will revolt. Also, culture gives a bonus to your ships and planet production passively.

However, you probably won't need to go overboard with the culture til late game, when both you and you're opponent are relatively rich.
Reply #4 Top
1.) As Patton said, "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man." Don't build turrets or hangers unless you have hit fleet cap and it would be unreasonable to expand your fleet cap. However, repair bays are excellent - they extend the life of all structures around them, including themselves, and your ships. Repair Bays are a worthy tech to grab when you realize one of your worlds is a choke point. Build Repair Bays in pairs or not at all.

1.a.) Hangers, built in pairs, can defend errant worlds from AI siege frigate raids. Built fighters, not bombers, for best effect.

2.) Research is critical to your military but less so for your economy. To put that another way, you win by fighting not but amassing lots of cash. That being said, the more useful civ techs are the early ones -- terran population increases being the absolute best bang for your buck and they are tier 1. The easiest way to expand your economy is to expand you empire by taking new worlds, which is a function of military, not civ, tech. Remember, never purchase a tech you won't use immediately. And NEVER buy labs you can't immediately use.

3.) It is ALWAYS 100% -- no, 110% -- better to have more frigates.

4.) Culture is often useful but never critical.
Reply #5 Top
1.) As Patton said, "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man." Don't build turrets or hangers unless you have hit fleet cap and it would be unreasonable to expand your fleet cap. However, repair bays are excellent - they extend the life of all structures around them, including themselves, and your ships. Repair Bays are a worthy tech to grab when you realize one of your worlds is a choke point. Build Repair Bays in pairs or not at all. 1.a.) Hangers, built in pairs, can defend errant worlds from AI siege frigate raids. Built fighters, not bombers, for best effect.

Definately agree on this - the Maginot Line is an example of how a dynamic force can overcome a static defence - in this case the Germans used the Blitzkrieg to pass by the French defenses in 1940 (http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/blitzkrieg.htm).
A few hangers however can be useful to pick off scouts/pirates when you fleet is away doing something else. Stopping them getting intel on your rear planets can be VERY useful as they don't know about that second fleet, or novo cannon etc... you are building...



Reply #6 Top
I dunno if you guys noticed, but he is talking about AI only. To say that static defense structures are 'monumentally useless' in multiple AI matches is about the most absurd suggestion I could fathom as a suggestion to improve chances of winning against multiple AI. There's either a misunderstanding about the playstyle here, (static def is indeed poor in multiplayer for obvious reasons) or a gross misunderstanding of how the AI behaves. This isn't WW2, and Patton wasn't talking about programmed intelligence.

I)It's hard to really analyze what you're asking here, because the time frame is important. In the early-game (first 15 min) planet grabbing period, almost all your income should be going toward economic infrastructure and the ships necessary to acquire planets. In some cases, certain planets may be vulnerable to small attacks of 1-2 frigates or a few wayward siege frigs. 1-2 turrets facing the phase lane they'll enter from will turn the majority of these attacks away. Other than that, ai will generally not commit to attacking your colonized planets until there are no neutral planets left for it to acquire. To do so would put it at a disadvantage, because of how long it takes to kill planets. Now is not the time to be dumping your crystal into static def.

When the battle starts moving into the middle game, static defense is going to be more useful. Now, if this is a 1v1, or even a 2v1 depending on your skill level, your money will be better spent investing in a fleet. This is not because static structures are 'useless' in this scenario, but because you are not made vulnerable by playing aggressively. If you take the fight to them, there's no reason to leave credits at home. But if this is a bigger FFA or 1v3+, you are going to want static defense at any planet that is on the front lines. The purpose here may not be what you expect. Defense structures are not there to save you from fleets, or even to kill ships. They are an incredible deterrent to small-medium ai attacks. You can have the strongest fleet of all the players, but it can only be in one place at a time. If you leave your planets to attack one comp, which is a significant time investment, your accessible worlds will start getting peppered by other enemies. If you don't redirect your fleet, you'll lose 4 worlds while gaining one. In response, your fleets will be pinned to full time defense, and the game will invariably draw out for hours and hours. You need to be capable of keeping enough firepower at home to convince the AI that it won't be able to take your fringe worlds, even while you attack elsewhere. You can do this by either researching a higher and higher fleet cap, which will tank your econ with irreversible upkeep, or use static defenses to boost the numbers. There's a pretty obvious right choice here. Yeah, static def takes funds away that could be used toward fleets, but driving your upkeep up for bad reasons also takes funds away, and leaves your planets in constant need of babysitting. Keep in mind that if a heavier attack comes that your current defense won't actually beat, the existing defense gives you time to construct more turrets. Comps are stupid and don't attack the builders most of the time.

If things make it to a late-game sort of stage, (you're touting fleets comprised mostly of high level cap ships and heavy cruisers) you'll probably want to flesh out your static defenses to their actual caps. I say probably, because it depends on whether money is an actual concern by then. In the late game for me personally, I generally end up having more money than I can reasonably spend.

Long answer, sorry. This is kind of an important issue in winning vs-AI games, and I think that you would be severely handicapped in big AI games if you stopped building orbital defense as suggested in this thread. 1v1, sure, 4+ player FFA, no.

II).)
Research is critical to your military but less so for your economy. To put that another way, you win by fighting not but amassing lots of cash. That being said, the more useful civ techs are the early ones -- terran population increases being the absolute best bang for your buck and they are tier 1. The easiest way to expand your economy is to expand you empire by taking new worlds, which is a function of military, not civ, tech. Remember, never purchase a tech you won't use immediately. And NEVER buy labs you can't immediately use.
Just quoting this, because it's pretty much what I'd say. Trade ports are big, throw down on the passive econ bonuses if you get a good opportunity, but the important things to research are things that give you a new ship, structure, or ability that you will actually use. Don't think you need something researching all the time, that's a big early game trap for new players.

III) Aside from certain capital ship pairings like Dunov+Kol(s) or general passive auras/etc that you want for a fleet, basic ships are generally better. This is especially true in the early game, where capital ships do not actually produce much firepower. This is subject to context, though, and some builds use capital ships more numerously. Explosive Nanites + 3-4 Phase Missile Swarm spamming Desolaters, for example, can be quite effective.

IV)Culture is primarily a late game tool, for various reasons. Reason 1 is the cost. ~900 credits and a hefty resource bill make them prohibitive to use early. The 10% income they generate takes a long time to make back its cost, and you kind of need the logistics slots for other things. However, when money is not so much an issue, and research has gotten deeper, they can be very good for non economic reasons. The TEC version of culture research is probably the best of the three, as the antimatter regen is quite significant to capital ships and support cruisers. They're all good, though. Culture can also suppress the loss of successive planets in a gambit to trade some of your planets for the eradication of one enemy. It is then also easier to get them back when the scenario has played out.

Feel free to PM me for more specific questions/suggestions.
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Reply #8 Top
Yeah, don't ignore static defense. Early on, a simple turret will draw the AI's fire. Later on, repair bays, phase jump inhibitors and planetary shield generators can significantly slow down an invading fleet, whether they attack or press on, giving you time to prepare, and/or withdraw one of your fleets to deal with them.
Also, if two equal fleets meet near one side's repair platform, then that side wins, and one of those in a neighbouring system puts any retreating fleets back in fighting form more quickly. For TEC, these platforms are available at military research tier 1, and can get a significant buff at tier 2, making them available early. They also don't cost an arm and a leg. The Advent get an antimatter rgenerator later on, which can also make them more efficient.
And, like Sixhits said, always build them in a minimum of sets of two.
These structures' main role is buying time.

Jump inhibitors are also one of the few ways to deal with the AI's annoying penchant to retreat from every single battle. XP for your caps, and death for theirs.

But, in the early game, it can usually be ignored for the moment.


As for general, RL strategy, even Patton would have agreed that static defense has its uses - namely, that of freeing up manpower and resources to be used where they're really needed. You can also use it to 'herd' your enemy where you want them. But, though it can be 'strategy', that belongs in an OT forum.
Reply #9 Top
Turrets for the AI maybe work, for human players they are a waste of time generally.
Reply #10 Top
I did specify that they were anti-AI. Its targeting priority settings value "shooting target" over "passive target", and thus takes down the less expensive, less valuable turrets before e.g. labs or extractors, or constructors, or planets. And, early on, those 3000 hp could take a while to deplete.
Reply #11 Top
the turrets only help against the seige frigates on the AI rush, anything else bombers/fighters will take them our or the player will take their time and move around the grid.

repair bays, hangars, and everything else work. Also have a fleet on standby to move in from the right location (like everyone else is saying).

Another Major point. Population and Defense planetary improvements. If time is against you, you better have better defenses to slow the planets destruction before reinforcements arrive. The last thing you need is to lose upgrades, ports, or other important structures that's still standing. The last thing you need is to move a home world because you didn't upgrade the planet.
Reply #12 Top
Here's an annotated game as TEC against 3 locked/aggressor hard AI. It's a testament to the deterrent power of turret clusters at frontline planets, and features several other AI tips & tricks.

The default filepath for records for me was C:\Documents and Settings\User\Local Settings\Application Data\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\AutoRecord-SinglePlayer

1v3 Record
Reply #13 Top
Here's an annotated game as TEC against 3 locked/aggressor hard AI. It's a testament to the deterrent power of turret clusters at frontline planets, and features several other AI tips & tricks.The default filepath for records for me was C:\Documents and Settings\User\Local Settings\Application Data\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\AutoRecord-SinglePlayer1v3 Record


yup, it's not saved locally to the game install location which is where I thought it was initially.