Nelp me with early game economic problems

The TA economy is pretty different, and many of us are still adapting.

Probably the biggest thing I've been doing differently is waiting much longer before I add improvements to a new colony--basically trying to make them able to pay their own maintenance.

I'm also pretty sure it is better to go a bit slower in adding colonies (be choosier with the first several and don't hesitate to let a colony ship do some real exploring).

Plus, even under DA I tended to keep my starting cash available for a long period of deficit spending. Especially in the early turns, it seems worthwhile to maximize morale (to get the pop growth bonus). I tend to freely deficit-spend the first half of my starting BC and then twiddle sliders to stay around -50 BC per turn as long as I can.

If you're not already doing it, getting Sensors I and building some survey ships will almost certainly pay off in anomoly cash.

I've had good luck with the following strategy in TA playing Terran Alliance:
1. Research Trade as quickly as possible which lets you build an Econ Capital on your homeworld.
2. Do not purchase a colony ship. With only $3K starting capital you can't afford it. Instead purchase the initial factory on your homeworld so ships, and other improvements, build a lot faster. I also purchase a lab on my homeworld at turn 2 so research goes a lot faster.
3. Use your initial colony ship to explore unless you find a really nice planet - PQ in the teens or twenties. Your economy will probably stay in the green until you've established a colony or two. The maintenance charge for the initial colony structure is the killer.
4. You'll need to develop a few colonies - a manufacturing capital, research capital, etc... but most colonies only need a market center to help build your income during the initial rush. Develop them more fully later. Speaking of market centers - every colony including your homeworld should have one.
5. Research Xeno Biology and Xeno Medicine fairly early to boost population growth.
6. There are a number of strategies for initial tax rate. I've tried several but find that setting it to 49% seems to work best for me. I've found in TA that I can usually boost tax rate to 59% after researching Xeno Entertainment without dropping approval below 50%. This will significantly reduce your deficit.

Unless your flagship does an exceptionally good job of finding cash, and/or you are fortunate enough to have some economy or morale resources to develop, you will eventually have to scale back production to stay solvent. By this point, I usually have 2 or 3 planets turning out colony ships, 1 or 2 building constructors and at least 1 building warships. I rarely have to drop the production slider below 70% and can usually move it back up a notch or two each turn until it's back at 100%

Good advice in the above reply.

Since my homeworld is the only source of income early on, I land the the colony ship given to me at the start then relaunch it with the min amt of colonists. I launch subesequent colony ships the same way for a while after as well. I get two or maybe three factories on that hw and then go for +income buildings there which differ of course depending on your race. You can always respec that HW later if you have some great tile boost you cant resist maxing out.

Don't worry about building anything at all on your other colonies for a while since the time it takes to build something is so long anyway and you'll be spending money on the social production for little reason. Even an income building on a colony with .25 bill people is not very helpful. The key is to grow people early on and not much else except on that homeworld.

The sensor research idea is key for me too. Get it ASAP and put a sensor on your cheap-to-build scouts and go get lucky. Also, you can sell techs to minor races if you meet some but this won't make you much.

I always build all economic structures on my HP and set the focus for social so they build rather quickly even w/o a factory.If there are any bonuses to exploit I will upgrade the tile appropiately when feasible.This usually keeps me in the green until I can colonize some.

When I do get a juicy planet I dont build right away but let the population grow until the colony is profitable.If I have the recruiting building i'll rush build on planets recently aquired.

I might follow up with a farm in some cases or not depending.Then i'll build more economy structures numbers depending on PQ.

I always try to stay in the green and this is about the only way I've found to even come close in the early game.One can use the miner as a constructor or a colony ship with an upgrade.Then theres the colony ship I get to start with.

I use the flagship to harvest anomalies and pray they throw a little cash my way.Its really nice when they do so's to have some rush build money if I need it.

I play with tech trading off most of the time so no money there.I usually play tough or higher but never lower.This seems to work for me but i'm sure theres other ways.

It also helps a lot when you can research down the "population growth rate" branch. Building some of those structures that increase the growth rate, can do wonders for your economy.

By the way MishkaSM, do you use tech trading to get some additional cash early on? I particularly like selling very low beam / mass drivers / missile techs if the AI is already much further in another branch. E.g. I'll sell them beams, laser, laser I if they are at least 4-5 steps further than that in mass drivers or missiles.
Or selling production & basic military techs to minor civilizations so later on they'll put up a better fight against the AI.

This is basically how I roll too, depending on the map I sometimes buy a colony ship though.

If you are playing on a relatively small map, or a large map with a rare amount of colonizable planets you need to grab some colonies asap.

Man am I off the deep end... just to illustrate:

I play custom race, Large map, everything abundant, tech at normal, no mega events and only conquest victory... I put these as bullet points, but they aren't in any particular order and some are done simultaneously...

- I buy the first factory on the HW...
- I make sure I have 100% morale for population growth. ALWAYS. At any cost. You will lose money at first... that's what the 3K is for.
- Set my sliders 40-20-40 (Arcean Tech Tree BTW)
- All asteroids to HW, then use miner as an explorer.
- I skip my rinky 4PQ and save it till last. Or just wait and let some dumb AI do it for me and just wait the 10 turns till it flips.
- IF I do not have a bonus for industrial I will buy another factory.
- Build a happy place on HW to help with getting tax money.
- Research is done on 1st propulsion tech so I can get colony ships. It's 5 turns, and I get 7 early techs vs 4 by not taking it in the setup screen.
- I change from the scout I was building to a colony ship, switch focus on HW to Military. I can usually time this pretty well. I never build a scout, I just hate to lose the 3-4 first turns of production.
- Any anomaly that nets me cash buys me another factory or rush builds if it's under the dollar amount I just got. Never over 5 weeks left though.
- I pump out colony ships as fast as I can and claim as many worlds as possible.
- I leave these worlds empty at first... the pop and no maintenance will make them earn their keep and then some.
- I keep adjusting the slider to keep morale at 100%. Sometimes it will be I am collecting 5% taxes... I keep it there until I start to bleed. Then I go to 76% morale and hold it above there.
- By now I have researched financial buildings. (The Arcean tree is a little odd, but the weather control +3 tiles is worth it.)
- I begin going back and specializing planets. Industry worlds, Research worlds and Money worlds. All worlds get a few Happy places and a few money makers. Later on I replace one of the happy buildings with the anti-spy one.

There are starts and times that will change this, usually when my HW has science bonus tiles. I still build the ships there... the asteroid and focus from all the science make for a decent production.

I don't usually build the econ capitol on my HW. I save it for a food bonus planet. That gives me 2 planets with significant econ boost vs. 1.

If there are resources nearby I will slip a couple constructors in, especially if I pull enough cash out of anomalies so I can rush buy them with 4 weeks to go or so.

It's a little hairy for a few turns, but after that it takes off like mad. 500bc a turn is not out of the ordinary, and that's with the production slider maxed at 100%

Anyways... always interested in hows and whys, agree or disagree.

T

Zillions of threads on this one. The economy is critical to get right with this game, fail to understand it, and you put your fist through the screen, hating the game for life ..... take time to understand it, really understand it, GalCiv flys and its great fun.

Always worth searching the forum for eco threads, a pot of black coffee, and a spare hour reading through them saves huge grief. One example thread Early Economy

Regards
Zy

"Nelping" sounds like something very naughty you do with another alien species.  :LOL: 

Sentient species taste better...

Leave new worlds largely empty and resist the impulse to continually build them up. Think less of developing the worlds and more on developing a functioning economy. Look at your buildings maint costs and your tech tree advantages and decide what to do.

It's actually what they call it when Drengin's cry...

T

Another way is to build econ buildings & birth rate improvement buildings; I've found that the 1bc maintenance for the latter pays off quite quickly.

^ Don't build econ buildings until your tax rate and population on the relevant planets make it worth the maintenance cost. Birth rate buildings are achieved later than the beginning. Approval rating grants pop growth bonuses at 100%, 75%, and 40%. Achieve higher approvals when starting out; more population growth now means more tax revenue later. People will stay in the empire as long as approval rating on their respective planet is above 20% or so.

When your empire is rich vast and powerful you can build whatever you want on the new colonies. But you will need economic planets to support the other worlds. Decide which and what type of planets are more suited and zone accordingly.

I though the limits were slightly different, e.g. 76%
Not to be annoying but it would be ironic if people aimed for 75% and got the same birth rate as 40-something %

Also, by "birth rate buildings achieved later than the beginning" I mean the Fertility Clinic, if your race gets it, not the Recruiting Center, also if your race gets it, which of course can be obtained right away and built on all worlds.

play with abundant anomalies and a galaxy that is not too densely populated.
You would need to be extremly unlucky to go bancrupt with that as there are usually enough 1000/500 bc anomalies to be found (coupled with those that give bonusses to econ and morale)

So, lots of good advise above. Here is what I do.

Turn one: I purchase a factory on HW and set to build (1) Lab, (2) Economy building, (3) Moral boost. I then set the Production slider to 100%. I set Military/Social/Research slider to 20/20/60. I set Taxes so that moral is 100%. I create a separate Colony ship that is a freighter hull with TWO colony modules plus life support. I convert the miner into the new colony ship you just created. I set the Star Base on HW to producing colony ship
Set focus on Social building on HW. Then I dock the current Colony ship to HW to pick up the remainder of the 250 colonists, launch it again and send it towards the nearest star cluster. Also I send the Flag ship off in a different direction. Then hit turn.

The next couple of turns I pretty much explore, looking for other planets to colonize. I won’t boor you with details but essentially I set up colonies with only one econ building (unless I hit on a high PQ planet that I plan on using as my Econ Capital). I also put up recruiting centers as soon as I get them to boost populations and minor income boost. These buildings can all be bulldozed over once you have good economy going and replaced with whatever you eventually need. And keep an eye on your Social building. If your planets aren’t building anything at all, shift your slider so that you put more into Military. Personally I don’t ever change my Research slider unless I am REALLY hurting for research, or BC.

I manage the moral to as close to 100% as I can until I get down to my last 700 BC. If I have to let it slide, I don’t let it slide beyond 85%. Keep in mind that the higher your approval rating is, the more your people proliferate. But it is at the planet level, so if your moral dips due to over-crowding on the HW, so long as the colonies are happy (100%) that is OK (in my book). Also, don’t be afraid to drop your production in stead of increasing your taxes.

I keep focus on HW to Social until all tiles are built except the Moral, and then switch to Military. Have your HW build as many colony ships as you can and send them out immediately. Have any new colonies build scouts to explore your horizon. Also, Freighters with Survey (Sensors I) modules and life support will help you mop up some of the anomalies around. And if you end up with extra colony ships and no immediately colonizable planets, use the ships to ferry colonists to your new colonies. This will help lower the over-crowding on HW and boost your econ on the colony worlds.

I focus on the early techs that give me Global bonuses (Planetary Improvement (+10 Military/social/research) that kind of thing and Econ stuff. But tailor that against research needs as well. Also, the sooner you can get to Trade the better. This tech gives you a plus to diplomacy and allows you to set up trade with the neighbors. The money isn’t a lot, but should be enough to get you green before you hit higher income methods. Also, it allows you to play nice with the neighborhood kids (build up Diplomacy with other races).

Don’t colonize low PQ planets in your turf unless there are no other better choices. Let the PQ4 in your home system sit. Sooner or later a Civ will colonize it for you and then the influence will flip it to your Civ. Keep your colonies more or less in bunches. Keep your eye on a frontier of sorts. The more spread out you are, the more enemies can simply pick off. But also keep an eye out for strategic “jumping off” points that will allow you to build up on your enemies front door step without upsetting them.

Once you are in the green, then you can start building up the other worlds. As a general rule, I don’t force purchase anything except the initial factory. And I don’t purchase on credit at all. It is just plain a burden on your early economy that you don’t want to deal with. Also, consider putting some BC right away into Espionage. In the first 30 or so rounds you won’t miss the extra (because you will be negative no matter what you do) and it will help you plan for it in the future.

As far as farms are concerned, I never build more than one on a planet, and never on a bonus tile. Pretty much, you want to keep your population below 16 on any given world, and then only on your econ worlds. Higher populations might sound like a great idea on paper, but the higher your population, the more your Moral takes a (major) hit.

One final thing, know your race strengths. If you are playing the Drengin or Korath or some other high military race, strike early and often. Grab planetary invasion as soon as you can and take from your opponents before they can research up to your soldiering level. In fact, I would recommend this even over colonization because you get free techs out of every invasion (provided tech stealing is on and your enemy has tech you haven’t researched). If you are playing more diplomatic races, don’t ignore your military. You may not be good in a fight, but your opponent will think twice if you out ship them. And your military might gives you a boost to your diplomacy.

I have to say the idea of not buying ships to get quick colonies has one significant flaw, at least in large+ maps. If you don't take planets enemies will and in the mid game they will destroy your economy and research capability. I have had the most success with buying at least one and usually two colony ships in addition to the original ship. Then I use those ships plus the survey ship to look for habitable planets (while now building colony ships with my planets). There should be at least three or so double digit planets in range which are well worth the cost of the fast build ships to grab. Losing an 18 planet because you wanted to save 1200 credits is a very bad thing and will bite you in less then 40 turns.

The other planets in the 8-10 range are worth getting on clean up (with built colony ships) but are ok to lose. Having space between worlds isn't so bad if you keep your influence up, you can either pick up those planets in an early war (just get some decent defense techs and the computer will lose again and again. They NEVER seem to know what to do vs defensive ships early on) or flip them over time with influence (and luckily by the time you might have habitat to make that 6 world useful, at the very least as a dumping ground for trade goods and galactic wonders).

If you can grab at least 4 or 5 double digit worlds in the early game you should be in good shape for your first war. Missing out on a few high end worlds on higher difficulty settings is suicide. I've also found that taking 30% bonus to econ and going federalist for another 20% to econ helps a TON. I used to spend the points on other things like planet quality and research but econ is jsut so much more effective. In one game as the Yor I was making 20,000 a turn in tax dollars on a medium sized map off of only 15 planets a few hundred turns in. They're a special case though since they have so many econ techs and the ability ot stack their econ techs with normal econ techs (xeno economics) and government types. It is quite possible to get up past 200% economics without too much trouble as the Yor with only a single economic resource starbase if you get enough decent planets going.

Certainly what you suggest has merit. I just caution that you don't want to wipe out your econ doing that. If you come across a couple of Anomalies that give +500 or +1000, use them to buy some upgrades or ships quick.

Population growth buildings are nice early in a colony's life, but also help later to produce troops for transports more quickly.

I've found a tactic that works pretty well for me:

Going Lucky and Universalists for a 50% luck makes the survey ship extremely valuable in looking for anomalies. It will churn in +1000bc anomalies on such a regular basis, I've ocassionally been able to rush-buy all of my colony ships. It's an unstable way of going about it, but the increased chance of getting the 1000's makes it worth the while in my book.

That being said, I've never before been good at early economics, and I mostly survive off the anomalies I mentioned before. I think I'll build in some of the suggested strategies here, and see if the two things combined works well.