The final word on Z-Axis

If there is a way to control Z-Axis movement, I don't know it. In general, Z-axis movement only occurs when a ship has to get around something. Say an asteroid or planet. It will go up or down to help get around it. Personally, I've never seen the need to go manually up or down. Let the computer worry about the z-axis.

Worry more about strategy on the X axis and Y axis.

Holding D works fine for me. You should see a little yellow line that highlights the path of your ship. While holding D, you can adjust this line. It's awkward but it does work.

If that doesn't do it for you, I'm not sure what the problem is though honestly, it's almost purely aesthetic. There's really little to no tactical purpose for it in this game.

Not entirely true.

If you want to avoid the firing arcs of some ship weapons, this is one way to do it.

You can avoid defenses this way. I plan to use this in future games draw enemy fleets off. I think 3D will be a great feature if they can flesh it out a bit in future expansions.

I simply like the fact that you can actually do this. It is a neat way to make your enemy come to you.

It certainly give boasting rights over other games like SOTS. And gives a real space like flavour to the game.

I wonder if you can D click your defences and factories.

Z-axis control has been removed.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/312987

"Z-Axis control was removed for gameplay reasons a few patches ago. I'm sorry for the inconvienence." - Ironclad Tech Support re 1.05 patch.

I don't know why the bothered, ships can still move in 3D, and I've seen people using guardians repel to knock opponents ships downwards and prevent them getting high enough up to do a phase jump. Also ships will move up and down when preparing for phase jumps etc. Anyway it just seems like at the very least they ought to put it back in for 1.1 anyway...

Same thread states that it will be back for 1.1

I want it back so badly.

Well, I'm glad it'll be in. Z-Axis let me win 9/10 on Homeworld. Nothing quite as demoralizing as seeing an enemy armada warp in at 0.0.10 [x.y.z]- dead over your base- coupled with the sudden realization that your line of cannons can't shoot up.

Hmm, it won't necessarily be back in 1.1:

Psugar (Ironclad) said it would be back in 1.1, but then retracted that with this statement - "My apologies, I had thought this was a mistake, but apparently it was removed because it was exploitable in multiplayer. Jamie's answer was the correct one, sorry."

I doesn't count out the possibility of it coming back in 1.1, but it definitely doesn't confirm it either.

too many noobs online complaining about tactics in with the Z-axis.

that's the kind of talk that strays people away from online

they never ment for z to actually be a factor in gameplay, so when it started to become one they took it away to fix it so that it isn't any longer

that sux. I would at least have hoped for an option!
One of the reasons I got this over other product was the 3D movement.
I do agree that it would currently be an exploit in multiplayer, however thats only because the game needs to revert to a true 3D form for planet defence\structures, mines etc and AI movement + the planet planes.

I can only hope that they will do things properly in the expansion.
They have removed a lot of good features for the sake of the layman.

orbiting planets
moons
Z-axis
sligshotting
solar system orbits
no phase lanes- open movement.
newtonian ship movement

Its almost worth attempting to get hands on the alpha for some interesting "space like"
gameplay.

why aren't the previous versions archived? I actually want to try beta 1 see how it was. I think I joined when the new KoI was added, actually when asteroids still had finite resources.

This game is supposed to take place in real time, the ships are moving at sublight speeds so not seeing anything orbiting is realistic.

Moons have been a hot topic of discussion.

I'm not sure how slingshotting would work as the ships are already moving at sublight speeds.

Phase space, as far as I know, is completely made up, so phase lanes were made too to have some tactical movement, instead of everyone ready to jump to any planet at a moment's notice.

I'm not sure what you mean about the newtonian ship movement.

I think that saying the game is representative of real-time to the extent that you wouldn't see planets orbiting is a bit a of a stretch. Sure, it's not turn based, but it's hardly 'real-time' either. The same could be said for most other RTS too.

Slingshotting doesn't require them to move at faster than light speeds, but the ships would have to go much faster than they do right now for it to be a factor. Also, for that be included you would need to get rid of phase lanes too because the ships would be going pretty fast and would need a lot more room.

Newtonian Physics - as in there's nothing slowing you down in space, so if you turn the accelerators off you will continue to drift at you current speed (at least once you've got far enough away from any planets): there would be no drag to slow you down. Ships and structures would have to orbit planets in order to not get sucked into their gravity well, although the buildings kind of already do as the planet spins beneath them (and they are all positioned on the equatorial line) - you'd notice this feature more as ships using the z-axis would have different orbtial paths and things would start getting interesting. There's other things too but meh. Again, phase lanes would not be compatible as the planets, to comply with the physics, would also need to be orbiting the star and thus any phase lanes between them would be constantly moving.

Basically they're saying "make it mor reel plz!". Were those features all genuinely in the Betas? Or was it bastardised versions of them all? Because they would all require significant change of the game to be done properly.

Again, phase space is completely made up. They can set any rules they want for it.
How is it is stretch that we don't see planets orbiting? Seeing them spin is already pretty rediculous.
As for the newtonian physics, to handle that graphically it would be a mess, just like making stars relatively sized would be. To handle that in terms of movement, then the ships would only have to turn thrusters on backwards to stay still, not too hard. To see orbital structures actually orbit would be as rediculous as seeing planets orbit. Maybe you'd notice a difference after about twelve hours, but that would be so minute that it isn't worth putting in time to write the code for.

The Z-Axis was never supposed to be a prominent feature of the game because it would be extremely cumbersome to manipulate. you'd have to redo the entire game to have the Z-Axis the way you want it.

I agree that it's not a stetch to not see planets orbiting (pardon the double negative). What I was saying was that using "the game's in real-time" as your justification for not having orbits is a stretch: if this game is "real-time" then how is it that you can take over numerous systems in a matter of hours? Clearly the game is NOT in real-time. I have no desire to see all those things Destraex listed in the game, not sure if I made that clear; I think phase lanes and all that are fine. I was mainly trying to point out how impractical it would all be to put that stuff in game (you clearly feel the same way).

As for noticing orbits (nitpicking) - it depends at what speed and distance they are orbitings, not all orbits are geo-syncronous, and even if they were not all planets take 24 hours for a complete revolution.

I can actually explain taking over systems in hours. Phase space, which lets you go more than twice the speed of light, and sublight speeds. As for the unit building part, this game is about as real time as World in Conflict, everything else is explained.

*sigh*

Faster than light speed travel does not explain how you wage war against several other huge factions and win in a matter of hours. Regardless, twice the speed of light is not that fast in terms of galactic travel. The nearest star to our star is 4.3 light YEARS away (that's 37668 hours in case you were wondering), other stars are similarly displaced (discounting binary systems). They are not 10 light-seconds or so apart. 37668 hours = 135,604,800 seconds. Let's say in game it takes 10 seconds to travel from star to star. Phase space would have to let you travel 13,560,480 times the speed of light to get in roughly the same amount of time. Still, it's a game, that's not too implausible.

As for buildings - just because building in WiC is about the same time does not make this game real-time all of a sudden. (I haven't played WiC, though from what I gathered they weren't built so much as dropped off onto the battlefield.)

Research is not explained: it takes longer to draw a picture of the ship in question than it does for these guys to research it.

Searching the planet: doesn't seem to take very long. Sure they might have a scanner for the purpose, but what they built it first and then all of a sudden it costs a load to use it? And only for a few seconds?

Structure construction is not explained: Forgetting actual, near-instaneous construction for a second, surely it would take more than few seconds to get the workers from the planet surface to the actual structure? Some of those things are huge like cities and it would probably take over an hour just to get one person from one side of it to the next.

Upgrades on ships are not explained: having invented new technology it rolls out instantly across the fleet? Wow, impressive logistics system.

Colonised planets have a remarkable birth rate for real-time. Also, they seem to work pretty hard and pretty fast in order to generate all those taxes.

I could go on.

So, clearly the game is NOT in 'real-time' (if you actually think this game could occur in real-time, even with phase space, you need your head examined): you might think it's real-time because of the sub-light speed battles, but really it is these that are out of place, and not the rest of it. Almost everything else, excluding the battles, could be considered pretty much in the same ball park and so you there would plenty of time to see planets orbiting, had they coded it.

My point when I referenced WiC is that it is completely in real time except for off screen actions. I highly doubt USA, USSR, or NATO could get units air lifted to a battle feild that fast. I see what you mean by research and ship developement being off balance, but with planets orbiting, that would be impractical for a game because phase lanes would either switch constantly or become extremely elongated, and would distort the map if the lanes stayed the same. They might not even be moving in the same direction. That's probably the main reason why objects do not orbit.

Did you even read my earlier post?



Eh, anyway, whatever.

Everything in the game is accelerated, even the combat.

So it would not be out of place to see orbiting stations or moons.

Without phase lanes as long as scanners could detect in-coming fleets you could intercept them. You would still be able to get fleets into positions that would allow either interception or at least reaching the planet before it is destroyed.
The differences would be that if an enemy sends a fleet deep into your territory you will have a counter for it by the time they arrive. Or the fleet in transit will be out of the game while others are making their ships count.
Waiting for planets and orbits to align would also be cool...... you could even have phase lanes appear as planets went past each other if you really wanted...

oops a half baked post gotta go... bbl to finish

This is a 'simulation'. The only reason they call it 'real time' is because you don't wait for each person to take their turn. It is a gaming term, not a reference to actual time. The real time it would take to actually take over an entire Solar system or set of systems would be measured in the hundreds of years.

Just a thought.

edit:

Sorry, to stay on topic. I would love the see the game with z axis. As long as you could place structures and deffense platforms strategically in the z-axis as well.

Back on topic. For the Z axis to be usable in the way most of the people posting want it they'd have to redo a lot of the main game. It's for that reason they're trying their best to keep the Z axis cosmetic only.