Bullying other races (and other moans about the diplomacy screen)

Yes, moaning. Not interested? Don't read.

from GalCiv2 Forums
Why can't you threaten a weak race with the prospect of war, and why can't you be directly threatened with war? The Drengin and Korath bully me for cash quite often, but when I refuse (which I do every time) they seldom actually declare war on me. I'm not particularly complaining about this, as war is very very bad, but I do feel not being given the direct choice between paying up or them instantly killing you as a slight deficiency in the game. Obviously, if every time you refused to give cash they declared war right away most game wouldn't last long.

The flavour text in the trade box that's meant to be your negotiation is always 'oh my, we're a bit strapped here, chaps, um... you wouldn't mind, would you?' (at least on neutral, which I play most), and you can never bargain directly with 'ok, give us x or we'll smash your faces in, yeah?'. I also do not appear to see how military strength contributes to your bargaining position, and an AI will drive an extremely harsh deal with you even when they should be very aware that in 5 turns' time they could be on the receving end of your entire military force. An AI with an occupied military will also seldom take this into account, I have seen, when you offer them a deal they shouldn't refuse.

The major issue here is probably the diplomacy system that plots against the player in general, where even the Torians, with zero military, will demand that you fork over your entire treasury and most advanced techs for Barren World Colonisation. What they don't realise is you're using your treasury to support your massive navy, with no shortage of [advanced] troop transports, and the only thing barring access to a large quantity of bountiful worlds to colonise is their soft fishy(?) flesh. You'll probably get the tech you wanted from invading their worlds anyway, and a few more besides.

As a player I will take into account when dealing with the other races what my military is doing and how substantial it is compared to theirs. The AI never seems to do this and gives me lip totally regardless of my ability to take said lip and eat it with a salad garnish.

In this topic, we discuss the above.
50,224 views 15 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The thing with diplomatic dialog is to NOT pay attention to the colorful language. Boil the dialog to the basic logic flow:

Race X demands money (resources, ships, planets, Influence, whatever)
IF "yes" GOTO ....
IF "no" GOTO ....

The wimpy dialog choices that you have to choose from are whatever the programmer thought would be entertaining -- to _him_, at that time when he did the programming. Underlying the creative writing are some very BASIC (as in, old programming language) commands.

So, be not concerned that your response makes you sound like a wimp. The AI really isn't listening.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If you demand something from a race for free, you take a diplomacy hit. When threatened, you will take a diplomacy hit for not giving in. I agree that those threats would be a lot more intimidating if the AI sometimes declared war on the spot if you refused, but the game doesn't absolutely need that in there.
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If you demand something from a race for free, you take a diplomacy hit. When threatened, you will take a diplomacy hit for not giving in. I agree that those threats would be a lot more intimidating if the AI sometimes declared war on the spot if you refused, but the game doesn't absolutely need that in there.


The AI does do this, although I think only if relations are already hostile. I've had a few games where an enemy, usually the Drengin, immediately goes to war if you turn down one demand too many (I'd already paid a few small bribes, but they were demanding planets, which I kept refusing them). They were in several other wars at the time but apparantly decided I was weak enough to give it a go. So I guess it's just a matter of the AI deciding it can take the player out.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
One time the AI asked me for "Tree Fitty". I woulda given it to him to avoid war, but right when I was about to capitulate, I noticed that the "Korath Ambassador" was really a 15 story-tall creature from the Paleolithic Era. So I said, "Dammit Lochness Monsta, I aint givin' you no tree fitty! Get off my porch!"
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Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I was playing the other day as a custom race, trying to play neutral (even though that so often results as a difficulty for me) and on turn 18 the stupid Drath demanded that I pay them a large for that point in the game sum. So what did they do? Next turn, they declared war.

So obviously it does happen, it just hasn't happened to you.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I don't recall what game it was, but some 4X thing I used to play had "tone" options for diplo exchanges. You chose a basic thing first, like asking for money, and then chose whether to be obsequious, polite, or belligerant (not even sure if the scale had more than 3 points).

You could do the same thing when responding to computer players, and different civs had different preferences, so the Famously Warlike People liked you better if you snarled at them, even if you were clearly weaker.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I know Anno 1701 had a diplo system simular to that.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Space Empires V has that (Polite, Neutral, Demanding). I'm not sure about previous SEs, as I never played the others.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If you demand something from a race for free, you take a diplomacy hit. When threatened, you will take a diplomacy hit for not giving in. I agree that those threats would be a lot more intimidating if the AI sometimes declared war on the spot if you refused, but the game doesn't absolutely need that in there.The AI does do this, although I think only if relations are already hostile. I've had a few games where an enemy, usually the Drengin, immediately goes to war if you turn down one demand too many (I'd already paid a few small bribes, but they were demanding planets, which I kept refusing them). They were in several other wars at the time but apparantly decided I was weak enough to give it a go. So I guess it's just a matter of the AI deciding it can take the player out.


Oh? Guess I haven't played enough then to see it.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
One time the AI asked me for "Tree Fitty". I woulda given it to him to avoid war, but right when I was about to capitulate, I noticed that the "Korath Ambassador" was really a 15 story-tall creature from the Paleolithic Era. So I said, "Dammit Lochness Monsta, I aint givin' you no tree fitty! Get off my porch!"


"I gave him a dollar."

"D**n it woman! No wonder he keeps coming back"

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Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
One time the AI asked me for "Tree Fitty". I woulda given it to him to avoid war, but right when I was about to capitulate, I noticed that the "Korath Ambassador" was really a 15 story-tall creature from the Paleolithic Era. So I said, "Dammit Lochness Monsta, I aint givin' you no tree fitty! Get off my porch!"


Daaamn woman!! No wonder he keeps comin' back! You keep givin' him tree fittay!!!



Yeah purge beat me but I love that episode so I had to jump in.

Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I don't recall what game it was, but some 4X thing I used to play had "tone" options for diplo exchanges. You chose a basic thing first, like asking for money, and then chose whether to be obsequious, polite, or belligerant (not even sure if the scale had more than 3 points).


MOO3.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
MOO3.


Ah, no wonder I wasn't remembering. I'm still in denial about having paid good money for that wretched thing.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
One time the AI asked me for "Tree Fitty". I woulda given it to him to avoid war, but right when I was about to capitulate, I noticed that the "Korath Ambassador" was really a 15 story-tall creature from the Paleolithic Era. So I said, "Dammit Lochness Monsta, I aint givin' you no tree fitty! Get off my porch!""I gave him a dollar.""D**n it woman! No wonder he keeps coming back"


He tricked me!

Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Apologies for encouraging the threadjacking, but...

I shoulda given my fawty o' fitty dollars to that damn Lochness Monsta instead o' dat Mess o'Rion Tree.

(Chef's folks here have to be one of the all-time best side-plots in a sitcom episode. Thanks for the pic, grandgnu.)