Jon Heron

Game manual update and playing Dread Lords and Dark Avatar campaigns through Twilight expansion

Game manual update and playing Dread Lords and Dark Avatar campaigns through Twilight expansion

Will the electronic Game Manual that came with the Twilight expansion be updated to include the new feature of the Twlilight expansion. I downloaded the Twilight expansion via Stardock central and found that the game manual was the same as the GalCiv II Gold manual except for the front cover. If I hadnt read the gamespy review I wouldnt have known that you could right click on the tech tree to get helpfull info. I'm sure there are other great features of this new expanison that I have missed so far.

Also, I would like to play the Dread Lords and Dark Avatar campaigns via the Twilight expanison so that I can enjoy all the great new features of that expansion but I can at the moment only play the Twilight campaign through the Twilight expansion (note: I had previously had GalCil II Gold installed, and you can play both the Dread Lords and Dark Avatar campaigns throught the Dark Avatar expansion).

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Reply #26 Top
Don't forget too, the Firaxis has a whole team of people to work on these things. Gathering from a post by one of the developers recently, Stardock, as least for the Vanilla GalCiv II had like 6 people. And it still beats the pants of everything not made by Sid or the old Microprose.

And while some games do come with nice detailed manuals (which I do appreciate) many other strategy games don't. Don't fault Stardock for not throwing in expensive and time-consuming extras that many bigger companies don't have.
Reply #28 Top
I may be the minority here . . but I want nothing in the manual but how to use the UI.  I wanted to learn the tech trees and how to play each race.  I want to put myself in the role of the galactic administrator and make mistakes buildign the "wrong" building.

Tables adn graphs and such don't make a game to me . . they make work.  ;)
Reply #29 Top
Don't forget too, the Firaxis has a whole team of people to work on these things. Gathering from a post by one of the developers recently, Stardock, as least for the Vanilla GalCiv II had like 6 people. And it still beats the pants of everything not made by Sid or the old Microprose.And while some games do come with nice detailed manuals (which I do appreciate) many other strategy games don't. Don't fault Stardock for not throwing in expensive and time-consuming extras that many bigger companies don't have.


I acknowledged in my earlier post that Stardock has fewer resources than Firaxis and I am willing to cut them some slack, but there is really no reason for their documentation (and by that I refer to information provided both ingame by the UI and by materials such as a manual) to be several magnitudes poorer. And it is. Again, Paradox is also a small developer and they manage to provide very extensive documentation with their games. Nor do I consider this information merely to be "expensive and time-consuming extras". Not only does the poor documentation make it difficult for TBS/4X newbies to get into GalCiv (expecially when coupled with the nearly useless noninteractive tutorials), but the lack of documentation leads to a lack of transparency in the game that has always negatively impacted my enjoyment of GalCiv, as fun as it still is.

My greatest enjoyment in TBS/4X games is planning my development (yes, I admit it, I like a fair amount of micromanagement and have never ever used a governor or automated my workers in any TBS game). Lets take Civ4; sorry, I can't help using it as an axample since I still consider Civ to be the king of 4X games. I can take many minutes happily examining the map to determine my next move--where to place a city, what tiles to develop, what to build or research next. And the precise consequences of all my decisions can be found in the documentation. Sometimes my actions do not produce the expected result, and in every such instance, I have been able to search the documentation and exclaim "Doh!" at what I stupidly missed. This often cannot be done in GalCiv because many of the "under the hood" workings of the game are just not adequately set out. For axample, many buildings give numerical bonuses to various stats, like economy and morale, but are extremely vague about how they are calculated. Twenty percent to what, I ask myself? Maybe I'm just dumb, but then so are many others, since I've seen many threads on the forums debating just these matters. When I take an action in Civ, I know precisely how much it will increase or decrease research, or income, or happiness. I don't know these things with such exactitude in GalCiv and, for me personally, it detracts from my enjoyment of the game.

Now maybe this is a deiberate design decision, though I doubt it. (In original EverQuest, obviously a very different game, the devs deliberately declined to give a specific numerical value for the player's mana pool, precisely to add a sense of mystery to the game. Of course, the method of caluclating this value was eventually cracked by the player base.) Obviously, there are different schools of thought on this matter. For me and other commenters, these matters are essential components of a good gaming experience while others see it as merely extras that a small developer need not provide. I'm just trying to set out my thoughts on this subject, and it may, in part, be a matter of playstyles. I always play a turtle/development oriented 4X game and like to micromanage, so it may be a greater matter to me than those who play a conquest oriented game. Although I love to play GalCiv, and have DA and TA, I don't enjoy it half as much as playing with better documentation (to paraphrase Irving Berlin).
Reply #30 Top
Details like that are only provided by game manuals in a very small perentage of games. Usually, fan made resources are where you have to find such information. I also doubt there are very many who super analyze everything like that, and I definitely think it unreasonable for you to expect Stardock to make their game and game manuals just to suit your own unique style of playing.

If this is really a bother, then do what the Heroes of Might and Magic V people did and put together a detailed fan-made manual.
Reply #31 Top
I agree that it would be nice to have a list of the unique techs and abilities for each race so that we can choose who we want to play and adjust our strategies accordingly.

I don't know that they need to redo an entire manual. Just an addendum with the new info would be a welcome addition.

I purchased both expansion packs so I could get access to the Arnor updates, hopefully our interest in this product will be appreciated enough to release a document detailing the unique races.  :) 
Reply #32 Top
Brad is planning to update the manual for TA.
Reply #33 Top
This is also the reason I was quite frustated when I tried to restart the original campaign in TA... only the TA campaign was there! I then checked the files and noticed their extensions and places... It appeared reasonable that if I copied the files from "/GalCiv2/Data/English/Campaigns" and "/GalCiv2/DarkAvatar/Data/English/Campaigns" to "/GalCiv2/Twilight/Data/English/Campaigns" the respective campaigns would appear in TA.
My guesses were RIGHT! I've been able to start the dread lords campaign in TA and all seems well. I haven't played more than a few turns, so I can't say if anything in the campaigns are broken by being taken to TA, but so far all seems well!


Has anyone else tried this and does everything work right? I was kinda curious if there are any cut scenes in the campaigns and if they all played right in TA after doing this? Thanks for the help.
Reply #34 Top
Brad is planning to update the manual for TA.


That sounds great. Any timeframe we should anticipate? :)
Reply #35 Top
This is also the reason I was quite frustated when I tried to restart the original campaign in TA... only the TA campaign was there! I then checked the files and noticed their extensions and places... It appeared reasonable that if I copied the files from "/GalCiv2/Data/English/Campaigns" and "/GalCiv2/DarkAvatar/Data/English/Campaigns" to "/GalCiv2/Twilight/Data/English/Campaigns" the respective campaigns would appear in TA.My guesses were RIGHT! I've been able to start the dread lords campaign in TA and all seems well. I haven't played more than a few turns, so I can't say if anything in the campaigns are broken by being taken to TA, but so far all seems well!Has anyone else tried this and does everything work right? I was kinda curious if there are any cut scenes in the campaigns and if they all played right in TA after doing this? Thanks for the help.


I tried this and I haven't had any problems yet. I'm still in the Dread Lords Campaign and the only cut scene I've seen is the one before the first mission.
Reply #36 Top
Does the campaign trick actually update the campaigns, or does it merely mean they load from TotA?

About the manual... well. I am a newcomer to the series (although an experienced TBS gamer). So far I am really enjoying GC2, and I am aware that Stardock is a small company, etc.

But, in all honesty (and I don't mean to flame), what Stardock did with the TotA manual was to deceive their customers. The file in my TotA folder is called TwilightManual.pdf. But it is, in fact, not the game's manual. There is no other word for that than "deception". This is what happened to me: I bought the game (ultimate edition), installed it, watched the tutorials, read the "manual", then started my first TotA game. I looked to the manual while I played for help... and began to notice that things looked different there. Then I came to the forums and found out the truth by reading this thread. How do you think that makes me feel as a customer? Not particularly happy, to say the least. As I said, I have experience with this style of games, so I can fiddle around and get by. But imagine how that must feel for an absolute newbie. This is simply bad business ethics - it would have been *much* better if Stardock had released this expansion without a manual, mentioning that it was still in development or whatever. Or even including the Gold edition manual - but not labeling it "TwilightManual". That is simply not the right thing to do.

Again, this post is meant as criticism, but not as flaming. I like the game, I think Stardock has done a fine job overall - which is exactly why this kind of deception looks so out of place.
Reply #37 Top
what Stardock did with the TotA manual was to deceive their customers. The file in my TotA folder is called TwilightManual.pdf. But it is, in fact, not the game's manual. There is no other word for that than "deception".


This is exactly what happened to me when I purchased ToA sight unseen the day after it was released. I bought it sight unseen because I love StarDock, own the previous GC2 releases, Sins, and even bought WindowBlinds.

This exact experience has greatly tarnished my image of Stardock as a software publisher. I will never just assume that something they release will be of quality.

I don't care about the box, I don't care about a printed manual.... but I have NEVER EVER spent money on purchasing a piece of software and not received even one piece of documentation (in paper or electronic form) in my entire life. This is a first for me and not a good first at that.

Stardock should actually be ashamed of themselves for releasing ToA without any updated documentation. In addition to the shame, they should be doubly embarrassed that they tried to take the Gold edition manual, make the effort to change the cover page, and then try to pass that off as the manual for ToA. Faldrath used the word "deception", weeks ago when I originally noticed this I used the term "product misrepresentation". Regardless, it is a completely 100% legitimate gripe and a legitimate reason to complain to the Better Business Bureau (although I won't do that).

The fact that this has been brought up for weeks already and the only response it either "We won't make a strategy guide" or "Brad is planning to update the manual" just doesn't cut it. The product should NOT have been released then. If another software product is the excuse (Political Machine 2008) then ToA should have been released AFTER Political Machine 2008 was completed. In the current case, it is a lousy excuse and makes it feel that they just wanted to get ToA out the door with no manual and an installer that didn't work properly in Vista (no shortcut to the Launcher!).

Whatever the reason is, customer impression is the impression. As in the post above me, I am not flaming, I am criticizing. And in this case, unfortunately, Stardock deserves a lot of criticsm.

Reply #38 Top

Quoting kryo, reply 7
Brad is planning to update the manual for TA.

 

This was four months ago. I've just bought the Ultimate Bundle Pack, and the manual for Twilight in there still looks like it's the Dark Avatar one. When can we expect it to be updated?

Back on topic, has anyone who has run the original campaigns through TA encountered any problems with doing that? And as another poster asked, do you actually get the benefits of TA by doing so?

Reply #40 Top

The 2.0 patch will have the updated manual...the 2.0 patch isn't out yet.