The Colony Rush is Finally Dead - True or False?

I play on large maps with 7 opponents. So its relative crowded to your games. All the normal worlds will be colonized very soon even in TA. But you are certainly not in a desparate rush for colonies. If you got less colonies you can probably start your first invasion a bit earlier with less maintaince to pay.

In my Experience (normal or huge galaxies in general) the colony rush is still important in many cases. In my first game the AI with the most planets was winning, his influence was spinning many planets over time and his miltary was 4x stronger than the military of the others.
On my actual game (I'm Drath) I have very few planets and the Torian have very many but because of my techs, playstile and so on I was succesful in first making everyone fighting each other and now I'm allied with 3 of my 5 opponents. Because of war-profiting I'm making 1000bc each week although I'm producing at 100% so in this game the colony rush seems not as important as in the first one, but I think the colony rush is still very important because in long terms the one with the most planets has got the strongest economy, military, research and so on.

I'm currently playing on an Immense map with max civs, and I did colony rush. I would build recruitment centers to get a bit of an economic bonus plus a population increase, and then I would just let the population build up to a stable level before building up the planet. I never went into the red and I ended up confining the civs near me to small sectors of space. Also, being the Terran Alliance, I bought up all of their newly colonized planets so they pretty much had no way of truly expanding through colony ships.

I had read a comment on here saying that the AI at the 'tough' "intelligent" level would be on par with the higher levels in DA, but... that turned out to be somewhat incorrect. The Korath barely ever expanded. Their highest number of planets before getting spore ships was 3. Now with spore ships, they have about 5 planets. All other civs had many more with the Torians and Iconians owning most of the territory, aside from myself. Anyway, in regards to the AI, 'tough' doesn't seem to really cut it for me. Since I don't play too many games of GC, I will probably try it on a higher level or on max for the next game. I still need to finish this current one up... at some point.

Do you think difficulty level might be involved here? I've stepped back a notch or two (I forget how much) from Tough b/c I'm still learning the tech tree stuff and wanted some more time before the Massively Aggressive phase started.

I ask another question instead of trying to answer yours because I've not gotten past the early game on any of the TA maps I've played, which have all been Gigantic or Immense. The few I've started puttering with since RTM have not seemed that different "rush-wise."

Mind you, I've never really hated 4X land-grab phases as much as I've wondered why there wasn't more meat behind timescale boundaries like entering the Bronze Age or Industrial Age in Civ. New icons were fun, but what I want from GC3 is a game that understands you'll need to think differently when you shift from a context where trade (or war) takes lots of time vs. being fairly quick. Or the war tools change fundamentally, or life sciences mean your citizens can change species, or whatever the boundary flavor is about.

I love the colony rush, one of my favorite parts of the game. And no it is not dead thank goodness, just a little slower going is all. Seems to have impeded the AIs as much or more than me though, since I still seem to be outpacing the AIs. Then again I still have to pump it back up to obscene and see if I can still otucolonize them at that difficulty like DL or DA.

I think the colony rush is critical for large and "larger" maps. You hav eto build up a suffcient production base to fend off attack incase you happen to border an empire who is hostile.

Zy ... do you say that (colony rush emliminated in TA) because of the new map size (immense) which provides all players the luxury of "grabbing planets" or is there another gaming mechanism implemented with TA that elimates the colony rush ??

I've been playing huge/painful games to date, and have noticed ample opportunity to colonize worlds, so not sure what if the reason is more stars/planets available, or if the AI's are not "totaly tweaked" or what ...

cheers

I agree with the OP that the colony rush is the perhaps most "artificial" and therefore least fun phase in any 4X game. It is good to hear that immense maps eliminate the problem somewhat, though I doubt that GalCiv2 went the way of Civ IV of making it actually more profitable not to rush in some cases (which is pretty much the optimal solution).

I think that Frogboy finally did it. Send the widow flowers. It wasn't with strange new planet types, or some new game mechanic, it was done in one of the simplest ways possible; he just tightened up the economy. No one can *afford* to rush now.

It's not so much the size of the galaxy, it's the point at which everyone runs out of bc. On a tiny/rare map it wouldn't even happen. There are so few planets that they would be snapped up before the inevitable economic crash. On the larger maps this is more noticeable. On an immense map, the Drengin, for example, would just be a tiny red dot on the other side of the galaxy, and would stay that way for quite some time.

I, as a player, can (hopefully) avoid that crash by only picking up planets when I can afford them, and by being much more selective about the planets I choose. The AI, however, doesn't seemed to have learned this. It is still aggressive when colonizing, and soon overextends itself, and grinds to a halt. I can then methodically continue to pick up planets, while the AI is still recovering it's economy.

This is playing on 'tough' difficulty. I'm sure that playing on the highest difficulties, with the economic bonus it gives to the AI, could be another matter.
I haven't even *considered* playing on 'suicidal' yet.

Fully agree Mistralok, except perhaps for the point that the AI would grind to a halt because of its colony rush. At least on the tiny & small maps with rare stars, planets, etc. I usually play. There simply aren't that many habitable standard planets so the AI doesn't go bankrupt from early colony maintenance.
On Challenging / Tough I do have to watch out once my population caps that I don't allow the AI to surpass me because they still have plenty of headroom to expand...

Probably this is much more applicable in galaxies with more planets.

I have not noticed much difference except that AI appears to be slower in colonizing planets which need a tech (fine with me). However, I play on medium maps.

I am not very fond of colony rush either. On smaller maps with occasional habitable planets and many opponents it is very much luck dependent for human player. Unfortunately the AI seems to know the location of habitable planets without scouting. See my post in this thread:
https://forums.galciv2.com/148553/page/3

I've noticed that the colony rush has been slowed down a bit and yes it does cost more...but definitely not dead.
If you're looking to completely kill the rush, wait for "The Bringers of Light" for TA!
I instituted my own colony rush killing system that works very efficiently! simple, but efficient nonetheless. As far as i know, dampening the colony rush was first done in TBL and then later on SD tried almost the same thing (as far as i know).

-Dave

Not dead, just resting while everyone works out the optimal approach to balance economy / production / research etc. With the games I've been playing so far it just seems that the "rush" has a delayed start and I need to fix the economy first - then it's full speed ahead.

The extra distances involved on an immense map are more than offset by the base ship speed increase to 2.

With the exception of the Torians, none of the AIs seem to be able to rush as effectively as previously, even with the huge economic bonus they get at suicidal. The Torians are just a maniacal super-breeding plague on the universe at suicidal, and you have to take them out early.

Actually, I haven't noticed much of a change with the colony rush, beyond it's speed that is. I play gigantic/tough and still end up rushing to get those last few open planets after 50 or so turns. Though I do play with a LARGE number of colonizable planets (abundant/common for number of planets and habitable planets respectively). Even with the thalans with their growth nerfs, you can still survive the econ crash by loading transports with multiple colony pods, so that your colonies start with with 750 million instead of 250 million. Though this does slow down the transports to the bare minimum. 500 million with an engine is also viable.

I'm getting close to the extreme environment phase in my current game (what I think of as the Second Rush), in which I'm finally trying to play Drengin. My long-term rut is playing Thalans, and they are very strong, far stronger than I've been able to make them on my own by that point.

But I have no info yet on the Torians, and a warning from Magnumaniac should not be taken lightly...

Are the Torians so effective just because they can grow their population enough for taxes to support continued rushing, or is there something hidden in their tech tree (which I haven't tried to study yet) which makes them super colony rushers?

My (limited) experience with the Yor suggests that the colony rush is incredibly vital for them. They *HAVE* to grab lots of planets so that their horrible economy can have enough population to get out of the red. Most of them aren't very productive - just recruiting center, efficiency center, and charging stalks - so they need to have tons of the things. They don't get the luxury of super fast breeding either, I'm tempted to mod them to have the super breeder super ability, it would help them a ton.

I've experimented with a few races so far, just playing out the first couple of years to get a feel for how they play - the Drengin tech tree is interesting, but goes a little too far with the industry +% buildings for me.

Thalans as an opponent do colonise quickly - but they can't do much else at the beginning of the game. Definitely have the base to become a super-power later on, so I wouldn't ignore them. Every game I've started though, the Torians have been number 1 by a long way in every category. Other races seem to be hampered by the economy and maintenance costs.

I am now trying out a custom super-breeder race with the Thalan tech tree. Seems to work quite well because there is no temptation to build out planets as fast as possible (nothing to build), and I can let super-breeder do it's thing for the first few months to get a sound economic base whilst researching (a couple of bonus creativity pops help too).

The Yor tech tree is my other initial favourite - but that does make the economy hard work.

You can create a custom race with the yor tech tree and the torian super ability.
Maybe you researched the advanced collectives too soon. the initial one only costs 1 maintaince.

My approach has been kind of a colony rush in waves.. rush, stabilize economy, grab more planets, re-stabilize, etc. The tight budgets do slow things down, but as others have mentioned it seems to impact the AIs even more severely (though I still can't keep up with their colonization rate on suicidal, it's closer than it was in DA).

Magnumaniac is right about the Torians. They are rather terrifying. They talk all peaceful like, but don't trust them  .

It seems to me that on tough setting, The colony rush consists of about 5-8 planets max now. before you would need to scale back expenditures.

the AI seems to still want to go and colonize any planet it sees ,yet I tend to do A bit more scouting . If I find A system with multiple habitable planets then I grab the one with highest quality.(leaving the rest to be colonized by opponents,in hopes that A:they set up trade with me
B: (the most likely scenario)I culture flip the planets.
C: easy invasion targets/espionage targets (espionage not likely on crap worlds but I see sometimes some weird a.I build choices)

so in the end of my rush I may be occupying about 5 or 6 pq 12+ planets

and the AI usually has twice as many but of pq 4+

I never ever colonize the other planet in my home system. which usually is pq 4ish,I actually welcome some fool to come and colonize it for me . it almost certainly will culture flip anyway

in early game , all I build are factories and the occasional research facility if I am lucky enough to get A bonus tile for that.I set all my planets focus on research
and just research an insane amount of diplomacy

with all my planet tiles having a upkeep of only 1 bc this helps me from ever going negative in budget .

I trade the following techs to every race I see
Trade (why would you not want their freighters comin ur way)
Any colonization techs
any sensor tech
any planet habitat tech
any beam weapon tech
any beam or mass driver defense ( i never use beam weps only missles,I dont care if the enemy is defending against beam or mass drivers)
stellar cartography
and communication techs

I never trade (ever!!!) missle tech,diplomacy,economy,missle shield,alliances
invasion techs

one more thing. spread those crap techs to everyone . and in your trades always ask for some money to be included