@ Huxley0000

I must be complete noob, i tried a 3 star system with 8 ai and the 3 on my system owned me in 2 hrs, due to having to split my fleet in half becuse of ebing attacked both sides( i have a feeling they allied together)

@ Stardock Awesome news Ill get testing this patch out, great to see the continued supports and effort

Nice update, but i did not like the fleet size increase.

First, the tool bar in game for the research items does not relfect what the researched fleet supply is (25%). Also, was really hoping for more fleet supply options, like +50% and +100%. Really need this for the larger maps.

HOpefully this will come in the future. This patch is a step in the right direction.

The force is strong with Iron Clad and Star Dock!

I'm so thrilled about the new difficulty setting. PLaying a medium map vs 4 AI is now extremely entertaining. Thanks guys.

Is there any way to DOWNGRADE to 1.02 to see an INCREASE in game balance. Because ya know, if I could, I'd do it, and just wait for 1.04 to play on ICO again. I enjoyed playing a race other than TEC now and then, but now, it's not really practical

I think the mods should do a hotfix for the market changes.

The other changes, are reasonable in that there was some basis (community and otherwise) for making them.

The market changes break the 4x aspect (it's now a 1 resource game), AND the RTS aspect.

There is absolutely NO justification for the new way the market works, and I challenge the mods to give me ONE good reason for the new changes. From a reality standpoint, balance standpoint, immersion standpoint, entertainment standpoint, and competitive standpoint, the changes are illogical and terrible.

I think while there is some disagreement in the forums about many of the other changes, the criticism of the market changes is universal and strong.

Please correct them quickly.

yeah I agree the market does seem to make it a one-resource game. You could make it so that each purchase increases prices nonlinearly based on how many have been purchased recently, but they should IMMEDIATELY affect the price. I suspect that the market was changed partly as a response to the 'first to ctrl+f6 twice wins' problem, but this is the wrong solution.

/signed

I agree with HuntingX guys. I think we need an urgent hotfix for the new market system. I have a couple of suggestions so that I'm not just critisizing ya.

1: Impose 30 second static trade period at beginning of games. This gives everyone the opportunity to trade fairly at the beginning.
- also instead of increasing the market value of traded goods by 1.02's standards just lower it a little to make large player games managable in the amrket without hevly changing the gameplay on smaller maps.

2: Create a bracket marjet system. Make the market much more volatile! I mean excessively so. If people keep buying then skyrocket the price. 1.02 Market max was 1600 for the hotfix make it 3000! I mean this seriously. Do it by implementing a ladder market strategy. Whereby after a certain amount of a resource has been purchased on the market the price makes a sharp jump to a next bracket. For example.

*SUMMARY*

Player A TEC Credit Driven
Player B Vasari Resrouce Driven

Bracket system + market flucutation.

Total credit investment into market resource determines bracket value.
3000-7500credits = 1st bracket, 7500-12000 credits = 2nd bracket, 12000 = 3rd bracket

1st Bracket 2nd Bracket 3 bracket etc... etc...
300cr 4 100res 600cr = 100res 900cr = 100res
100res 4 200cr 100res 4 400cr 100res 4 600cr

NOW... The brackets = the overarching mechanism of market fairness. As long as trading stays within a bracket the market will fluctuate up and down as it does in patch 1.03, but as soon as it passes the thresh hold into another bracket the price instantly increases by x amount. This can be done by simple makig the value jump a certain value per total investment in the market.

When ever a player sells resources, the credits he recieves is SUBTRACTED from the market total. Thereby allowing the market to be truly responsive to supply and demand while not allowing crediuts to become the dominant force. The system works in all types of environments as long as the rbackets are correctly determined duyring programming and testing. 4FFA will see less trading then a 10FFA but the wonderful thing about this system is that the increases are much less per bracket at lower levels then at higher levels. For example a bracket 5 to 6 jump would mean a differnce between 2K per 100 Res to 3K per 100 res or maybe evcen more! I think this is an absolutly imperative market startegy.


*RANT*

300 for 100 Metal --> players A, B, C all buy a 300 metal. The market starts fluctuating a little bit more volatily then 1.03 but not at all ridiculous to 1.02 (keep in mind your new market mechanism is MUCH better then the old one.)
So at this point we have a total of 2700 total credits invested by all players for metal. As soon as it crosses 3000 the price of metal stops fluctuating from whatever it is you currently have it set for and INSTANTLY jumps to 600 for 100.
This mechanim extends perfectly for resource selling as well. The more total invested money the more rsources are worth. Much more per bracket. Think of it like tax brackets etc. To lower the INSTANT change we saw occure from 3:1 --> 6:1 back to 3:1 what would NEED to happen is for someone (Vasari!!!) to sell their resources for that nice chunk of change!!! The amount given to the player in exchange for the resrouce is subtracted from the total creds invested into buying thus allowing the market to fluctuate betweeen brackets effectively and rapidly.

I think you shoyuld just straigh up implement this plan. It works. Most importantly I think out of all the possible solutions it will maintain the balance better. TEC will not be allowed to exploit the market like they can now, other races can now actually fight back with their lack of credit building. TEC players will now HAVE to control their spending, forcing them to immerse themselves deeper into resource gathering as well as trade. Because buying all your resources will only give your opponents the advantage of making more money at higher brackets. OMG this is so amazing. This will add considerable gameplay value to the 4X aspect of the game. If you took the time to read this please post your responses. If you agree please say so!!! The devs need to hear our opinions if they're gonna fix this!!!!

Guess I'm going to be the lone voice of dissension then. I don't see an issue with the market system. It's different, but more dynamic. I like it, actually.

Also, from the Frogboy's post above...



So, I wouldn't be surprised if the current market system is an experiment/placeholder. They made a fair amount of changes based on feedback. I'm sure they will continue to do so. But at least give it some time.

Wanted to repost this so it gets seen... if the primary purpose of 1.03 was AI then we have a problem

Somehow they are worse then before, My friend and I just played 2v2 we fought 2 hard random computers on a medium map “Entanglement” One computer colonized as many planets as he could and did not upgrade them, due to this he was minus credits the hole game and never had a fleet.. the other computer had a mediocre army.. and later he had his lvl 6 cap ship off by itself to be destroyed… we have played many 2vs2 games, and this was the easiest AI yet.. and I thought they where easy before.. Still have the replay if proof is needed

Also cant wait to try out the new AI! Has anyone tried using GalaxyForge with the new patch? Since i loaded the 1.03 patch, the game does not see any of my maps made via Galaxy Forge anymore?

Edit: I've managed to get around this by changing the version number in the map file via notepad to 1. The thing rocks now! Thanks to the dude who posted this tip in another post!!

Alright, my two cents so far:

First off, I dig the Vasari.

That said, I too am having some issues with the new Black Market. I've grown rather accustomed to having a metal/crystal superiority (and credit inferiority), and being able to rapidly liquidate those assets (which is something I had to do frequently to counter seemingly lousy credit production values compared to my opponents).

Currently - that is no longer anywhere near as feasible a solution as it used to be. Selling them to the black market at any time other than a boom, is just plain foolish. While I understand you might have meant for that to be... it's a bit difficult to catch.

If you are going to make a Black Market that is far more dynamic, you really need to add a means to track the fluctuations in the market, that does not involve watching a fullscreen display to the detriment of all other aspects of your empire. Because honestly, having to switch to a fullscreen display to monitor the situation - at the expense of controlling anything else - is just stupid (no offense).

Those little updates on the alert windows on the lower left? Those are a bit unwieldy, and honestly very hard to notice (they need a good sound alert or a brighter flash, or something?). Not to mention if the market booms, the message is usually replaced almost instantly with something else. Yes, I'm aware you can see the messages at a glance with a mouseover - but that doesn't mean much when they just keep on scrolling into oblivion. Also, some sort of timestamp and an in-game timer display would be nice to help keep things organized (I didn't somehow miss one did I?).

All I am asking for, is a tiny little ticker or graph... Maybe 1.0 to 2.0 centimeters tall, and 3.0 to 5.0 centimeters long (I have no idea what that is in terms of pixels... just something around the size of a pinky finger on screen is what I'm talking about), that I can stick maybe in the upper right corner underneath the top toolbar, maybe make it dim and transparent so that it is readily readable, but not too distracting.

That's all... just some miniaturization so that I can multitask a bit better. I hate missing precious oppertunities because my attention is needed on a micro-intensive battle that I would have to abandon completely for a fullscreen display that could be shrunk down to almost nothing! Seconds matter  

That or just up the base amount on the sell to the black market - since putting stockpiles on the black market as opposed to selling them directly no longer seems to really matter, as by the time you hear of the boom - the player who is buying has already purchased, and your supplies will just sit there depreciating.

One last thing: you really can get way too many supplies at far too low a price by clicking really fast... and the price booms really don't last quite long enough without considerable interaction with the market - which is nigh-impossible on a small match (2 to 4 players). I don't rightly understand why the Black Market... a means of obtaining things questionably that you would not normally be able to acquire... serves the Buyer so much in this game, shouldn't it favor the Seller?

EDIT BELOW:

Eh, I just don't think you will get the Black Market quite right until you make the amount of crystal and metal it starts with finite. If you really want it to be fair(ish) and impact the game well... you need to start the Black Market off with a finite number of resources, that increases at an initially slow (yet scalable) rate.

Make the amount of resoruces (supply) present, depend primarily on the stockpiles that players contribute for sale (as opposed to direct sale to the black market). You could perhaps make direct sales to the black market be considerably less profitable (although immeadiate gains) compared to the amount gained from someone buying from your stockpile, and have it increase the rate of resource generation for it (temporarily) without actually increasing (directly) the amount of supply available (instead of gaining 100 resource, it just ups the rate regeneration).

Allow price to fluctuate based on supply versus X number of units sold in Y amount of time, and figure in the current rate of resource generation somehow; and then supply and demand economics can really kick in - and the market can crash, although over time even with no player infusions, it should be able to regenerate. Here's a thought - have pirates influence the supply. Every time they kill Trade Ships, Trade Ports, Refineries, or Refining Vessels - have the amount of supply increase some. Hell, it even gives you a reason to add fun changes to how pirates work (arrr!). Heh, a good pirate raid could put a cramp in your Black Market profits  :LOL: !

Eh, just a though.

Bah i'm unable to try 1.03 due to lack of players (0 games, 3 players in lobby and 29 total online)

Will try again this evening. Maybe tell those 100.000+ sins customers that there's a multiplayer option.

You do realize right now it's in the 4:20-7:20 AM in the morning range for the US for a workday.. right?

Is Stardock Central as terrible for you guys as it is for me? I've watched the upgrade progress churn for over 20 minutes now. The latest DA update wouldn't even take. Is it because I'm on Vista (with all new hardware)? I hope I'll get 1.03 working some time today!

O.K., this is just silly. Can I get the patches via direct download some place?

Use the Sins launcher, click 'update game'. After entering a valid login linked to your serial you will get a direct download link to the patch.

Yes, at the update page where the update button within the game links to.

I still get framerate drops from chat messages. Also, ICO lobby drops framerate when it's full of text, but not when it's empty or when viewing a screen without much text (player settings for example.) Basically it's just like it used to be. So what gives? Is there any chance that the game did not update some parts correctly? (probably not, since 1.03 ICO games work fine.)

THANK YOU Netriak! And thank you, too, boxox. For some reason I was locked in my mind to using SDC for the updates. Free at last!

The same thing happened to me last night. However the first faction attacked me and then took off and straight for my home world which was defenseless b/c I had retreated back to assist my other colony who was getting attacked by faction 2. Although fun, it sucked.

Made me realize my fault and the fact I really need to balance my research and fleet size to accommodate for multiple attacks.

Nice Job. Thanks for caring so much about your players!

I just have one complaint though. Installing the patch (through stardock) reset all my settings. Oh well, life goes on, but the UI still doesnt feel "the same" I think I must have changed something else initially that I've forgotten now. A few games and I'll get used to it. Thanks again!

I'm not from the US, if this game is for US citizens only, where can i get a refund ?

Let's not start denying problems now, ICO is empty most of the time, for the reasons stated over and over. Some have been addressed, but it's still terrible to the point that ouf of 100k customers only 20 go to ICO to play multiplayer. Maybe 150 in US prime time and that's it. If you think about it, those aren't realistic numbers.

200k customers.

time in ICO until game: 5 minutes.

Gamelength: call it 90 minutes.

# of people playing VS # of people in lobby: 1/18

people playing at a time using your #s: 360 - 3000

Average(?): 1000

assuming a quarter of people play ICO multiplayer (50k)

meaning people spend 1/50 hrs playing MP, or 3-4 hrs a week.

That's a little low. But still, the numbers are hardly unrealistic.

When ever i hit "update game" it just sits there doing nothing... and when I do it in game it quits out of the game and then just sits there... I can get the patch through other means but it would be nice if this would work...