There's a lot of whining going on here...

from Sins Forums
Lately I've seen a lot of people complaining about how lame spamming is, or how X strategy is cheap, and how the devs should fix it pronto. Let me preface this by saying that hard caps are the mark of a hideously poorly balanced game, and I am 100% opposed to moronic fixes like "Make LRM's only be 1/2 of your fleet". Such commentary is indicative of the fact that the game seems to have 2 kinds of players.

One type wants to win, and chooses strategies that will help them win. Whether this is going for a fast TEC embargo rush on a small map, spamming a combination of LRM's and flaks, or turtling up and advancing to endgame tech's like returning armada. There are many ways to win, and this player usually has a pretty good idea of how he wants to get there.

The other type plays the game because he likes to think about winning strategies, but doesn't like to implement them. This is the sort of guy who will jump into build-order or balance posts and whine about how the game is being devolved into a series of numerical over-analyses, and please can't we just stop thinking about whether one thing is fundamentally better than some other thing, and get back to enjoying the thrill of staring at our computer games without actually playing them. They tend to deride games like starcraft as "clickfests", and claim that Sins is a new brand of RTS in which one is not forced to issue orders in order to win. These are the kind of idiots who whine that X spam beat their "balanced force", without realizing that regardless of unit composition, if 1 player spends 2 or 3x as many resources on ships as the other, he will probably win. As He Should.

While I understand there is a class of gamer who can't be bothered to move their mouse more than once every few seconds, it would be best for everyone here if they stopped hijacking posts by whining about how sins is being turned into every other rts.

Thoughts?
12,421 views 21 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Sorry, but you're thinking at least two different camps. I've played most RTSes since Dune II, so I really enjoy Sins' non-clickfest mindset.

However, what strategy one uses is fine with me. Good, experienced players can deal with the cheapy strategies. Sins just has more possible strategies than most other RTSes.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top


I wrote a longer post and deleted it...lol. After reading I didnt totally agree with it.

Anyway....I think in regards to the LRM spamming...maybe just slightly adjust some other ship type to be a bit more effective against them. Maybe like Bomber Squads have a 20% increase in damage or something. Perhaps this would combat the tactic a bit better overall.

Even though I was one of the people in the other thread who mentioned the cap thing.....that was just an initial "thinking outloud" type post. I dont think that is the best solution after thinking it over more. Thats what forums are for....discussing ideas etc.
Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Increase the damage Bomber squadrons do to LRM's by like 70%...maybe even make another ship have a bit more effectivness against them with a 30ish% increase.


LRMS have 2 counters. 2!!!!! And none of them are BOMBERS. So if you are building BOMBERS to counter LRMs, then I got news for you: Reason you are losing and think they are overpowered has nothing to do with their stats. It's a matter of you not knowing anything about the game.

It hurts real players having you submit stupid ideas all over the board, and having the Devs dig through the misguided suggestions you post.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Every single strategy I have seen so far(besides maybe Dunov groups) has an easy and feasable counter.

This game is very very ballanced.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Astax I deleted that post and posted anotehr already lol. I got rid of that.

Yeah..to behonest Ive only played one person using this strategy so far and I was able to combat it with dumb luck I guess. I had a fairly balanced fleet of 20 or so ships against his like 25 LRM's and I was able to take out half of them (but suffered huge losses) and he retreated. In retrospect I think he was a rookie at doing it because if he had kept at it I think he could have overcome me with it.

Anyway...again...I had edited out what you quoted well before you posted it.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
It hurts real players having you submit stupid ideas all over the board, and having the Devs dig through the misguided suggestions you post.


Another thing...Im not sure what your referring to but probably the 2 posts on this subject I imagine. In both cases I have come back and said I didnt think they were the best ideas but just discussing the topic other people have brought up.

You dont see any threads started by me saying "Nerf this or nerf that wahhh!". This is a discussion forum afterall. You dont have to insult people if you dont agree with them. Just state why you disagree. Ill be the first person to look at it and then agree with you.

In truth I do agree with you on this subject. I was just going off what I had heard from tons of other people on the subject and discussing it. Like I said...Ive only ran into this strategy once so far. The guy did eventually beat me...but not because of the intial rush of this strategy.

Anyway...if your the discussion police I guess I will make sure to not ever suggest anything and I will tell the other now 5 people I talked into buying and playing the game to not bother coming to the forums because the discussion police are in full force.


Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I should mention that if Sins were turn-based and not an RTS I would never have bought it. Likewise, if it was the normal generic Command and Conquer or Warcraft -like RTS I also would not have bought it. Most of the people playing Sins who are complaining about cheap strategies or wanting more ship caps (something I'm completely opposed to) are getting outplayed and need to sit back to re-evaluate what they're doing or seek new ideas for strategies.

Lately I've seen a lot of people complaining about how lame spamming is, or how X strategy is cheap, and how the devs should fix it pronto.
One important note here: Don't confuse complaining with throwing ideas or suggestions out there. There's a difference between complaining and discussing the pros and cons of a product or strategy.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
I've never understood how "spamming a unit" is considered a cheap tactic.

If your enemy has a weakness (say, very few strikecraft) why should you ignore it? Should I in this case, still provide flak support for my fleet? No, they would have no strikecraft to shoot. I then realize that my LRM's will take little damage as they fight due to this weakness, should I still build repair ships if I don't need them? No.. does this then make my fleet "unbalanced" and "cheap"?

If the enemy does not provide counters for a heavy damage unit, then there is no reason for the attacking player to build support for that unit. Thus "spaming" that unit.

This is called strategy. Most of the whining I see is simply when someone uses a strategy to exploit a weakness in their enemy.

I wonder if Poland thought Hitler was spamming tanks and called him a noob?
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
One important note here: Don't confuse complaining with throwing ideas or suggestions out there. There's a difference between complaining and discussing the pros and cons of a product or strategy.


Exactly!!

Being I got slammed by Astax or whatever...I wasnt even a person who has started any nerf threads or anything. I was only DISCUSSING the topic in the 2 posts I made. Many people on this forum seem to have the mentality of "If you make a post it better be freakin 100% beta tested.".

I actually in doing more reading on the forums feel there probably isnt any problem with the LRM spam thing now as I actually learned of one other counter to it. I guess I had just been lucky in not seeing the strategy as much as some other people have but then Ive been playing mostly with friends and have only played like maybe 10 games online I think.


Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
Okay every RTS out there has a order of things to do for the "Ultimate" stratigy. It sucks it does suck some of the game but thats that. The only deal is most people never do the "Ultimate" stratagy right in anygame. Yea a % of the pros do it right, but most people just do a bad job of doing a good strat. Making it normally beatable.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Well, spamming is one I would consider "cheap" because it requires little experience or knowledge to do. It's like random button-mashing in Street Fighter.

But it's a valid strategy, and even experienced players might use it to do the old "reverse psychology" thing.

There's no such thing as the "ultimate strategy". But there are well analyzed opening moves/builds. It's just like in chess or any other game.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
if players really want to learn how to play this game I highly recommend they join one of the clans that have been formed by the beta testers of this game. They are already offering information on game play and such.. In fact they can get in on developing strategies as this is a new game and a new style not found in most other multi player games.
The two major clans formed around the game are:

The Galactic Empire
WWW Link

And The Space Ponies
WWW Link

This whole game is going to break some ground in the gaming industry and the fun should go on fror many a year.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
It was a collective "you", meaning all the people who keep posting dumb threads about non-issues.

On topic: There is no "ULTIMATE" strategy in this game, nor should there be. There is just a lot of whining.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
if players really want to learn how to play this game I highly recommend they join one of the clans that have been formed by the beta testers of this game. They are already offering information on game play and such.. In fact they can get in on developing strategies as this is a new game and a new style not found in most other multi player games.
Clans take too much involvement for your average Joe. I recall joining one once for another game several years ago and it was too much commitment to stay "active" in the clan despite the fact I was good at that particular game. I don't think clans are the answers and I think strategy discussions and watch-and-learn battles are more practical. That's just my opinion though. People have to find their own grooves and get going. Sins requires thought, not mindlessly running around from pickup to pickup. I don't think everyone realizes that yet especially if they've come from action-oriented games like C&C, Starcraft, FPS games, and so on.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Increase the damage Bomber squadrons do to LRM's by like 70%...maybe even make another ship have a bit more effectivness against them with a 30ish% increase.LRMS have 2 counters. 2!!!!! And none of them are BOMBERS. So if you are building BOMBERS to counter LRMs, then I got news for you: Reason you are losing and think they are overpowered has nothing to do with their stats. It's a matter of you not knowing anything about the game.It hurts real players having you submit stupid ideas all over the board, and having the Devs dig through the misguided suggestions you post.


I laughed, post of the day.

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
Every single strategy I have seen so far(besides maybe Dunov groups) has an easy and feasable counter.This game is very very ballanced.


Dunov groups? Dunovs get shredded pretty fast in my experience. I think you can counter them pretty easily.

Which makes it a perfectly balanced game. :CONGRAT: 
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Every single strategy I have seen so far(besides maybe Dunov groups) has an easy and feasable counter.This game is very very ballanced.Dunov groups? Dunovs get shredded pretty fast in my experience. I think you can counter them pretty easily.Which makes it a perfectly balanced game.  


Ahh you have no idea what I can do with those, or the Mauradars. Multianna can disable WHOLE fleests with just 2 :p

Thank YOU! this is a much needed post.
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
Yep, but thats only if you are willing to micromanage, and know how to do it well. That doesn't make it unballanced cause it takes a lot of skill to do that kind of strategy.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
Every single strategy I have seen so far(besides maybe Dunov groups) has an easy and feasable counter.This game is very very ballanced.Dunov groups? Dunovs get shredded pretty fast in my experience. I think you can counter them pretty easily.Which makes it a perfectly balanced game.  Ahh you have no idea what I can do with those, or the Mauradars. Multianna can disable WHOLE fleests with just 2 Thank YOU! this is a much needed post.


Sabatoge reactor. wtfpwnt