Should the computer players be able to win a technology victory (currently they can't)

Personally, i voted yes...

However, i think its better to implement an option in the game to either activate AI tech victory or not...

This way, everyone would be happy

Also an option to perhaps reduce player score, remove that race from the game and keep playing... maybe...

I'm not afraid of the AI getting a tech victory. I keep close tabs on the AI's state of research so that I know what ships it can start throwing at me when, and in only one game did it even make it as far as Overlord technology. That was because I decided that I wanted to see what an Excalibur could do, so I turned my research rate way down and built a few. Managed to field three of them before the Torians finished Overlord Tech.

If you've let the AI get that far in tech and you're not close, then you deserve to get the fuzzy end of the lollypop, since Excaliburs are almost a game-ending unit (and no, I don't want them toned down, there should be serious rewards for making it that far in the tech tree) even without there being "Final Frontier."

I mostly support the idea of letting the player turn computer tech victory on or off. That way, those who want to have that added challenge can, but those who don't want it can still play the game with all three avenues of victory open.

#3,4

Agree with Popup and Blue. Make player-(s)electable and do not weaken end-tech units.

~SDC~

You guys seem to understand what it means to play a strategy game

I'll throw in my suggestion from another thread again.

I also would like the AI to be able to win by techvictory, but there are certainly things to be taken in to consideration. If all else fails here's my in between solution. I think this might make both the pros and cons happy.

Maybe it would be a good idea to disable techvictory after an AI has outrun you. That way the game continues but the techvictory isn't an option anymore. How about that? Wouldn't that make everybody happy.

That way you can:
- Still win a techvictory, but you have to outsmart the AI for it.
- Continue playing after an AI has reached "Beyond Yor/Arcean/Torian/Altarian/Drengin", but without the techvictory as an option for you anymore. You would have to go for another victory then. I think that would make the techrace interesting.
- It doesn't affect Metaverse scoring.

That said I could also live on (and play on) very well if the option comes available so that you can turn it on or off (like suggested above).

LordTheRon, (off topic) enjoy your birthday

Thanks Freya, I surely will Starting with taking the long weekend off

I'm all for this victory condition for the AI. Makes it even more "humanlike" in my opinion. I don't have a problem with being able to switch it off either. It's the mark of a good game that you can configure it to your own tastes/ability. The bottom line is FUN after all.

I have no problem with the Tech Victory condition being exclusive to us humans. There should be some things that make us inherently superior to the others races, we DID event hyperdrive after all. If these other races are on an equal level with up creativity-wise, why were they still using star gates? I have no problem with an ubertech, that propels the human race another step forward to another level of existence, not all life, not all humanoids, HUMANS. That is how is see Final Frontier now. The other races can get the technology, but it’s simply not compatible with their DNA. And don’t give me any argument that the Altarians look just like us. They have to have genetic differences.

I like the fact that I can have basically all the other races allied against me and if I hold out long enough against there combined cultural and military might I can still win. And if you can last long enough with those odds stacked against you I think you should.

If there is a decision in the future to give the aliens an equivalent of a tech victory, I would definitely like the option to make it available to humans, aliens, or both. If aliens are given the option of a tech victory I would like to see the research cost of that final ubertech drastically increased, say ten times or so, for humans and aliens alike, in order to give us humans a chance to respond a win by other means. This would also give high level ships and improvements such as the Excalibur a longer play life.

Other suggestion I have that might be too simple and limiting to the different AI’s, but assign each race a preferred victory condition that fits their general personality. The Altarians goal could be to win through culture, the Torian through Alliances, the Yor through Technology, the Dregin through conquest, and the Acreans something yet to be determined.

As long as I making a wish list, I would like to see a high-tech, late game, ubertransport to go along with the Excalibur. Something with a high movement rate and troop capacity that wouldn’t be automatically destroyed if the invasion was successful. Something that would let you choose how many troops to leave to occupy the planet and then continue on to invade a neighboring one.

Dude, just make the damn thing selectable and everyone would be happy

If that is possible

I vote selectable, but if an alien race wins, the game continues with their worlds abandoned. You could still get a any victory with a lowered score afterwards, even a tech victory. After all, when you achieve Beyond Human, you can bet the aliens left are still playing their mortal games and enjoying your free improved and empty worlds! Hell, they may follow your path and join you as a transcended being! So let us do the same and follow them if we choose! Game continues with one fewer race per transcended species, and with a notification the "The X have transcended mortality."

~SDC~

I can see a potential unbalancing aspect of the "aliens abandon world and transcend proposal". Being humans as we are, it would not take much effort (or espionage) to track when aliens are going to transcend and park colony ships next to the soon to be abandoned systems and get all those juicy systems for ourselves. Then it should be a cakewalk. Don't think the AIs would be able to duplicate this "sneak colonise" tactic. The staged colony ships shouldn't trigger the buildup alarm so this tactic should do workable.

I would rather that the AIs not leave but the human player get points deducted (incremented for every race that transcends)for any win achieved.

'Metagame thinking'? Ok. All this is IMHO.

We have 9 different variants: tech victory is on/off, comp tech victory is on/off, and player winning/equal/losing (in econ, tech etc. prior to end of the game)

First number - 'comp Tech victory always on' score, second number - 'allow comp Tech victory choice' score

player on/comp on/player winning - all is ok, player wins.

player on/comp on/draw - for me, if i lose, i just reload 1-2 years before and change my strat somethat and win. For others, it will be fun to go to tech race to victory. (+1, 0)

player on/comp on/player losing - Player spend so many hour playing this game and lose. This is bad because the there will be no hope to win then your econ is bad, so players just restart a hopeless game (so less fun) or use cheese tactics to get techs etc. (-1, +1)

player on/comp off/player winning - all is ok, player wins.

player on/comp off/draw - bad because player just can press 'end turn' several times and win - no sense of competition (+1, -1)

player on/comp on/player losing - as already said, player must be rewarded for win in unfavorable conditions, why it must lose because of worse economy? (-1, +1)

player off/comp off/player winning - depends on other victory options on/off. More important here is why player turned off Tech victory. If it turned it off to disable 'sudden death' then comp researchs last tech, this is bad, because he is now forced to win other ways. (-1, +1)

player off/comp off/draw - bad because it will take too much time to win in other ways, same as player on/comp on/player losing. (-1, 0)

player on/comp on/player losing - same as player on/comp on/player losing (-1,+1)

'comp Tech victory always on' -3
'allow comp Tech victory choice' +3

Overall, 'comp Tech victory always on' is good then there is a draw, and players playing for fun will get good sense of competition. It's bad because it don't give a chance to players to win a game anyway, gives sense of hopeless, so reducing fun.

'allow comp Tech victory choice' is good because it can remove abovementioned drawbacks, but is bad mostly because it favors metagame thinking. Some players think that it's *unfair* to play with this setting because they had an *unfair* advantage over comp, and this reduce fun for them because they are forcing themselves for abovementioned drawbacks.

~SDC~

How about making it alien race/alignment dependent? I can imagine "Beyond Altarian", but I can't really picture "Beyond Drengin".

I like the Idea of letting the player play on and achieving trancendence, but mark it as a loss and deduct points accordingly for each race that gets there first.

It seems pretty simple to me. If tech victory is turned on, any race can win it. If an alien wins it, stop scoring right there and call it a loss for Metaverse purposes. The losing human may continue the game, but the results are already fixed. If it is too difficult to freeze scoring but allow playing on because of the potential coding problems, then I would not be against the game just ending right there as a loss. Playing on would be nice, in my opinion, but not necessary.

Citizen Mark Krosky on 5/2/2003 at 12:36:55 PM mused;

/QUOTE ON

How about making it alien race/alignment dependent? I can imagine "Beyond Altarian", but I can't really picture "Beyond Drengin".

/QUOTE OFF


Something comes to mind right away . . .

It's on the tip of my tongue.

Bra . . . er . . . Frogb . . .

Damn memory! Will post again when it comes to me.


Elrikk



~SDC~

As i'm very crazy at work and get to play a little each week. i would be sorely pissed off if after 4 weeks i all of a sudden lost because they got to final frontier just before i did. especially if it shows that i'm at 104% towards a tech win (i've researched everything but the final frontier) Also with the different intelligenc levels i see a potentional unbalancing when the superior intellect of the other races is beating you at everything That being said i also very much like this idea if it is a user selectable option. And maybe at the higher the intelligence level of the ai's we add bonus points to the losing score?

A lot of good ideas have been coming from this forum.

the cat
irc.stardock.com #galciv