Oy, Too Many Religion Fights...

Whew...who knew it would last so long...

from JoeUser Forums
Well, I'm sure that 99% of you have seen Capt's article and carebear's article relating to it....well this is mine....I'm just wondering what the heck is going on really....I've almost went insane trying to follow every argument on there...and this is what I've gotten:

Religion issues....AHHHH!
Gay marriage
Teen Bashing
and other stuff I can't even pull out of there......

Anyway, I'm not quite sure what the heck is happening there....I've seen some of the teen stuff....a lot of gay issues and religion out the arse....whew. I'm glad I'm not one of those crazy die hard Christians or I'd be over there right now getting pissed. I'm a "Christian with no church" as Trina so eloquently put it and I'm not really seeing what everyone is arguing about....I think it was originally about the moment of silence in school...and then gay marriage and how some churches don't support them. So I say, just don't get the churches involved for the religious stuff...and get one of those offical legal marriage things and just chill out....that's what my suggestion is. I'm not quite sure what all of this Christian stuff is about...so if anyone can please, clearly and coherently explain what the deal is on that...I'll be more than happy to join in....I'm just confused, that's all....

So, I'll be going now....someone please fill me in,
~Zoo
blogging
6,252 views 36 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Basically it's a fight between what me and Capt. and a few others think about the gay marriage against what seems to be like the whole JU community. There's just a lot of people that don't agree with me and Capt. and they'd like to argue with us. And then the whole teen bashing is just simply me and Capt. and a few others are getting bashed and it all seems that we're all teens that are getting bashed for our Christianity. That's basically it. And with the whole moment of silence. It's turned into something with praying out loud now.

Hope this helps your confusion,
~carebear~
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Eh, I'm starting to understand...I'd like to hear the other side's point of view and/or reasons for this increasingly growing argument also.

~Zoo
Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Those is pretty much a hot button issues. Press those and there's inevitable arguments all over it, religion related or not.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
At the moment it seems to have transmuted into more of a debate about why Captain and Carebear don't seem interested in listening to the arguments that have been put forth.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
At the moment it seems to have transmuted into more of a debate about why Captain and Carebear don't seem interested in listening to the arguments that have been put forth


It's not that we're not intersted. We're just sticking with what we think is right. If we weren't listening then we wouldn't say anything related to it and how we feel about it.

~carebear~
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Press those and there's inevitable arguments all over it, religion related or not.


yeah that is the truth. That is always a hot topic no matter were it is at. In a chat room or the internet or even on tv sometimes. People will always have differant opionions.

~blondelife~
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I love it when the youth take on the establishment... I have to say though, I haven't read the article in question... I know when there are other articles dedicated to articles on such a nature, well it's best to stay away, because I dont really want to get involved in this situation... there is teen angst, and there is power tripping authoratarianism... either way, I am here to spread the love baby.

BAM!!!
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
There's just a lot of people that don't agree with me and Capt. and they'd like to argue with us.


True, but replace argue with "debate and discuss."

And then the whole teen bashing is just simply me and Capt. and a few others are getting bashed and it all seems that we're all teens that are getting bashed for our Christianity.


Categorically untrue, you're not being bashed, we just disagree with you're being overly defensive, taking our disagreement too personally. There's no need to make yourself out to be a martyr, nobody's bashing you for your Christianity, it's just that suggestions were made on your "prayer in school" issue, suggestions that other Christians agreed with, but you continued to feel sorry for yourself.

It's an emo, overly dramatic high school thing, trust me, I've been there. You don't have to be a Christian to feel like everyone is picking on you, nobody understands you, and they're all out to get you. You'll grow out of it. In the meantime those of us who have grown out of it tend to have little patience for it.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

At the moment it seems to have transmuted into more of a debate about why Captain and Carebear don't seem interested in listening to the arguments that have been put forth


Exactly.


And then the whole teen bashing is just simply me and Capt. and a few others are getting bashed and it all seems that we're all teens that are getting bashed for our Christianity.


Oh please!  That's a little melodramatic! When did anyone say to you "hey, you're stupid for being christian.  christianity sucks and so do you"  All we're trying to do is have you think things out for yourself instead of blindly follow what someone else says.  No-one's saying that you shouldn't be christian, we just want you to be able to reason things out.  The offical prayer argument..well, we're just trying to explain to you what the law says about that and why, and we've been trying to give you suggestions about how you can pray in school....and to be honest, I feel like you're not listening.  You want what you want, and you want it your way.  You want there to be a prayer time in school, and you don't seem to care what anyone else thinks..because you're the majority and we can all go to hades.  Sorry if you don't like it, but that's just how I feel.


As for the debate going on over there...it started with the pledge, morphed into gay marriage, then ended up with official prayer time in public schools....and I'm done posting over there.  Nobody's even acknowledging what we say anymore, so it's pointless.

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
carebear said:
It's not that we're not interested. We're just sticking with what we think is right. If we weren't listening then we wouldn't say anything related to it and how we feel about it.


Okay, I'm just going to list out what I can recall of your positions on things. I don't want to debate any of them further, I just want to make sure I understand what your beliefs are. Please correct me if I get something wrong:

Homosexuality is a sin.
Homosexuality is not determined at birth by genetics.
Homosexuality is a conscious choice that can be repudiated by becoming Christian.
Gay marriage should remain illegal.
The pledge of allegiance should retain the words "under God".
Private individual prayer in school is not allowed.
Private individual prayer in school should be allowed.
Adults today don't understand teens.
Christianity is unpopular.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

 

There's just a lot of people that don't agree with me and Capt. and they'd like to argue with us. And then the whole teen bashing is just simply me and Capt. and a few others are getting bashed and it all seems that we're all teens that are getting bashed for our Christianity. That's basically it. And with the whole moment of silence. It's turned into something with praying out loud now.

Actually, we're trying to DEBATE the issues, and you and Brandon want to turn it into something personal against the two of you.  I haven't seen anything resembling teen bashing, or Christianity bashing on that entire thread. 

It's an emo, overly dramatic high school thing, trust me, I've been there. You don't have to be a Christian to feel like everyone is picking on you, nobody understands you, and they're all out to get you. You'll grow out of it. In the meantime those of us who have grown out of it tend to have little patience for it.

VERY well said....if I'm not going to tolerate it in the children who live in the same house with me, why should I have to deal with it here at JU?

No-one's saying that you shouldn't be christian, we just want you to be able to reason things out.
 

A major clue might be when even the Christian adults are on the other side of the issue! 

 

 

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Actually, we're trying to DEBATE the issues, and you and Brandon want to turn it into something personal against the two of you.


They don't want to turn them into anything personal. They are putting what they believe it isn't personal.

~blondelife~
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
The issue on Captain's thread was largely because he used an inflammatory title as a hook (Gay WHAT?!?), then complained because respondents weren't responding to the topic of the post which was school prayer and the pledge of allegiance. He could have tied his beliefs into a neat little package and remained consistent with the title of the article, but he chose not to. He could have changed the title of the article once he realized it was drawing people in to debate the gay marriage issue, but again, he chose not to. In fact, he ADMITTED to choosing that title to draw people into the post. It's shock blogging at its finest.

I respect Capt very much, but let's not confuse this as a religion fight. This was a response to someone who chose to poke a few people's eye out with a sharp stick, then complained when the people he was targetting didn't enjoy it.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
He could have tied his beliefs into a neat little package and remained consistent with the title of the article, but he chose not to.


Yes, I was a little confused when, with a title like that, he stated that he REALLY wanted to discuss prayer... okay...

And thank you for your comment on my summary earlier, Poetmom, I truly do think the Christian teens on this site need to chill a little with the drama. You guys are not being "persecuted" for being Christians, you just have to realize that when you're having a discussion with others, they MAY disagree with you >8).
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
I truly do think the Christian teens on this site need to chill a little with the drama.


Trust me this isn't drama at all. If it is it is about 2% of drama compared to anyone else in our school or community.

~blondelife~
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
but this isnt your school, nor your community
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gay marriage should remain illegal


I don't ever remember anyone saying gay marriage should remain illegal. We just said that it shouldn't be done in the churches or court rooms.

I think maybe we should all just chill out with the drama, not just the teens, but everybody.

~carebear~
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
We just said that it shouldn't be done in the churches or court rooms.


Churches that don't want it: fine.

But court rooms? Okay, so where then? GAY Court Rooms? What next GAY Bathrooms, GAY School, etc. etc.?

The point was that the government, a supposedly secular institution, is giving a lot of special benefits to people who get married, so if gays aren't supposed to get married in a court room then where? Or are you talking about Imagimarriage, where we all just pretend that they're married, even though they get none of the benefits?
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
but this isnt your school, nor your community


Never said that. I said that if you think this is drama then... i didn't mean it that way.

quote]But court rooms? Okay, so where then? GAY Court Rooms? What next GAY Bathrooms, GAY School, etc. etc.?quote]

That is good. I agree with that one it is almost like what happened before to slaves and what we did to them. I never thought of it in that way.

~blondelife~
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
The point was that the government, a supposedly secular institution, is giving a lot of special benefits to people who get married, so if gays aren't supposed to get married in a court room then where?


There are plenty of places people can get married. They could get married at their own home.

~carebear~
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
But court rooms? Okay, so where then? GAY Court Rooms? What next GAY Bathrooms, GAY School, etc. etc.?


And no, we're just saying that we don't want them getting married in a place of God, if you get what I'm saying??

~carebear~
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well, I really don't see why the courtrooms would be such a bad place to marry gay people....I mean, why not?....it's not a place of God. If they want to get married so they can have the status...then the courtroom is the perfect place....

~Zoo
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ok, ok. You wanna know the truth? Yes I was arguing some of the stuff just for the points. I'm not going to lie to you. I like gettings a lot of points. And I have been on here long enough to know what gets the points. Of course, I can't constantly lie to make friends but every once in a while I can lie to get a whole lot of points right?

First off, I know that a lot of parents do understand the teens but just don't understand the circumstances that are being forced upon said teens.

I'm not saying christianity isn't popular, but I am saying it's not someone many people enjoy hearing about.

Of course, I used my title to draw people in... I've even made an article about doing that sort of thing (not many people read it though). I just wanted to see where everyone stood on the said issues and I think I figured it out for the most part.

I'm sorry for messing with you all like that but I feel as if I understand some of you a bit better now.

Oh yeah, here's some more points for you Shaun! LMBO

Capt. over and out!
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hey what about more points for ME??? *tear* lol.

~carebear~
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hey brandon. I think that it is ok. i don't think everyone made a big deal about it. I know you did it for some point but i don't think you did it for all of them.

~blondelife~