Cultural Retards

I gave you an insightful for this. Where I live I see a hell of a lot of people from minority groups, and I never really thought about it, or thought that prejudices and so on worked both ways around. I like the way you write, it's easy to read and passionate and opinionated. Sorry. I'm no good at leaving comments, but just to let you know. I thought this was really well written, and you make a good point.

Dyl xx

i think its a preservation thing. it's real easy for a minority to "lose culture" if they completely immerse themselves in the dominant culture. that's kind of inevitable though, at least partial assimilation. they used to call it a melting pot, now they call it a "mixed salad".In the end, the brightest radish still ends up tasting like the dressing it sits in.

by the way, have you seen the film "Bend It Like Beckham", or "Big Fat Greek Wedding" is another example of this theme. Its terribly common.

i think its a preservation thing. it's real easy for a minority to "lose culture" if they completely immerse themselves in the dominant culture. that's kind of inevitable though, at least partial assimilation. they used to call it a melting pot, now they call it a "mixed salad".In the end, the brightest radish still ends up tasting like the dressing it sits in.

by the way, have you seen the film "Bend It Like Beckham", or "Big Fat Greek Wedding" is another example of this theme. Its terribly common.

There is definitely often prejudice on all sides, but so much is from pure fear. Prejudging is never OK. In America, we are going back in time, I'm afraid. It's very complicated here, especially after 9/11. But I'll stay off of my soapbox today. There are many religions and cultures that have strict beliefs and often marrying outside of your religion can lead to being completely disowned. I know it doesn't make much sense to many to come to a new country, become a citizen and fly your own flag and keep to yourself, but then again, we haven't walked in their shoes.

Prejudging is never OK

Hmm... I have a tendency to trust people and think the best of them. That is a prejudgement. That is not OK? I have never eaten snails, and I'm thinking I don't want to. That is a prejudgement. I've never taken cocaine. I don't think I would like what it would do to me, but I don't really know. That is a prejudgement. If I see a man with a bloody knife walking down the street, I will avoid this person. I do not know why his knife is bloody, but I am making a prejudgement that it is better to avoid a non-danger than take the risk that my blood will be the next to coat that knife.

In my opinion you should be careful about stating any absolutes.

CS Guy- Talking about prejudging in the way I am is not OK. It is not OK to go to someone's blog and call the one they are dissecting, pathological, for instance, without knowing them.

Talking about prejudging in the way I am is not OK

Then you should qualify your statements. Just saying that prejudgement is never OK does not leave any room for interpretation.

It is not OK to go to someone's blog and call the one they are dissecting, pathological, for instance, without knowing them.

If you are basing that opinion on evidence, even percieved evidence, then that is not prejudgement.

You have certainly offered many judgements on Bush, so are you saying that you know him?

CS Guy - It could be that I give too much credit to common sense if I need to qualify. Here's your qualification......it is OK to judge a snail by choosing not to eat it. But if you choose to judge the snail so much that you go on a campaign to kill all snails, it's not OK. It matters not to the snail if your taste buds are close-minded, but it matters a great deal if your close-mindedness affects it's very existence. It is your loss I'm sure the snail thinks. Just as Muggaz must feel that it is the beautiful young Sikh girl's loss, even though it might not be her fault.

The second comment- This man is the president of my country and I have the right and duty to question his actions. I did not vote him in, but once in, I gave him the benefit of the doubt for a long while. This man has much effect on mine and my daughter's life. He is very important to me.
But I'll give you your point. I do not know him personally. Judge away!

it is OK to judge a snail by choosing not to eat it. But if you choose to judge the snail so much that you go on a campaign to kill all snails, it's not OK.

That's a bad analogy. He isn't talking about people going on a killing spree because of some cross-culture exchange. He is talking about exclusion. And so are you...

There are many religions and cultures that have strict beliefs and often marrying outside of your religion can lead to being completely disowned.

Neither of you have discussed genocide. So why bring that into my prejudgement of snails?

Oh common on, my snail thing was cute! You were the one that brought up eating snails, you were the one that brought up the guy with the knife.
But exclusion because of prejudice, I can definitely sink my teeth into that one!

This is just one particular example that makes me upset... this girl lives with the shaddow of ostracism if she does anything against the common trends of her community.

Great article Muggaz, I find that with the progression of time and the influence of the western world and of capitalism slowly the younger generation is starting to detach from these ethno-centered and antiquated ideals of our respective societies.  That's the optimistic viewpoint but is it morally wrong or right that is left up to debate.  I know how I think though and I agree with your position, which may be due to our age...

But exclusion because of prejudice, I can definitely sink my teeth into that one!

That was the point of the snails and the guy with a knife. I was prejudiced to exclude snails from my diet, and guys with bloody knives from my vicinity.

I agree that often, and probably most often, prejudice is bad. But I am not willing to say it is always bad.

Wow - Thanks for your comments guys...

It's an issue that is dear to my heart... My mum married a Pakistani lad, and his extended family basically think us as uncouth, uncultured slobs... and to some degree, they are right, but it really upsets me how they have painted us with the brush just because we have different values...

At the same time, I hold tremndous respect for my father in law, because he is certainly the 'balck sheep' pardon the pun... We had a cousin's 21st in a small country town, and he stuck out like a sore thumb... that takes tremendous courage to put yourself in that position... he is lucky, he is male though, so he doesn't really have to deal with the same consequences as a young sikh girl....

BAM!!!

CS guy you're getting into the muddy water of stereotypes.  Of course not every man with a knife is a killer (ie; could have been a butcher)  but there is a reason that stereotype exists you know?

I dont always think Stereotypes are a bad thing...

It teaches you to respect other people because they may or may not have certain beleifs... I always approach someone of a different culture with a stereotype... and wait till i get to know them before I make a judgement... You cant approach any situation with at least some pre-conceived notion on how the other person is going to act...

then again, my stereotypes are about respecting the other people, and their possible beliefs/values... other people will stereotype with negative connotations...

BAM!!!

I agree Muggaz stereotyping someone is something we do automatically at times unfortunately but you can use it in a positive way at times and stereotypes may not always apply to a specific person's appearance... Sorry I wasn't very clear in my last reply.  I personally try and form an opinion on a person based on character, or I wait to make my judgement on them. 

Of course not every man with a knife is a killer (ie; could have been a butcher) but there is a reason that stereotype exists you know?

I'm missing your point. Are you supporting or condemning sterotypes? And I do not think that my avoiding a man with a bloody knife is a stereotype. It is a matter of risk. The down side of assuming the worst in that case is much better than the down side of assuming the best.

Well I was really trying to say that stereo types can go both ways, positive and negative.  I wasn't very clear though.  When you see a man with a knife you automatically form a stereotype to avoid him which if he is a killer is a good thing but if he is a butcher it's not good because you are classifying him. 

AS an example... say If i was to go out with an Indian girl... I would approach the situation very timidly, and be afraid of what her father may think of me - because of his possible stereotype of White folk, because I have respect for him...

However, he is going to stereotype me as uncultured trash merely because I am white... because thats what his culture tells him...

My stereotype of him will only help my situation, because it brings respect from me to him,. yet his stereotype of me is only painful for us both...

BAM!!!

I don't think he has a stereotype for you as uncultured trash merely cause you are white. He has a stereotype that your not of the indian culture merely cause you are white.....and that if his daughter marries you, she will lose her indian decent....and thus be judged by other indians. He wouldn't think less of you cause ur white, but in the same token he wouldnt' accept u with his daughter either. And this is why you shouldn't even try gaining his acceptance, becasue as long as he is indian and believes these stubborn views, then he will never accept you.

I don't agree with my culture. I think it's so hypocritical to have to marry an indian guy just cause it salvages the "family pride." And it doesn't just stop there....it's not that you have to just marry an indian and that is the end of the judgement....oh no, u don't get off that easily...you have to marry an indian guy that is of your elite cast and of your religion. CAST?!??! You would think that cast system stopped back in the day of the kings and queens and the peasants. No way...this cast system is still very much alive in the indian community. This cast system haunts and segregates indians within their own community. The funny thing is that you can't even tell the difference between casts unless you specifically ask. Yet an indian doctor will always be looked down upon as of lower cast no matter how much education he has, and an Indian trucker will always be looked up to because he is of higher cast. Basically your born into a stereotype, and you can't get out of it no matter how much education or success you achieve.

Different orgin and religion....who cares if someone is from New Delhi or Punjab??? Indian people,of course, because they are so narrowminded and lost in their social image that they fail to recognise the advancement of the culture in the countries they are living in. IT doesn't matter where you live- America,Uk, Germany.....the indian traditions will always haunt you...and until you marry, your parents will always lecture on the family status and the pride. The only way to ride yourself of these traditions is if you rebel and do what you want without caring about the looks and whispers of other indians. The new generation is rebeling and for this, I am greatly thankful.

To make matters worse, it's okay for an Indian guy to go out to clubs, date different ethnicities, smoke, drink...whatever. But if a girl were to do that, then she has to live with the burdens of shame and judgement. I don't know why this is, since Sikhism teaches equality within women and men. It's this inferiority rank created ages ago, that men are better than women. There are thousands of women that abort their baby girls because of this rank. Cause of this inferiority complex, there is almost twice as many males than females in India because families fear that having a daughter might be a risk in their family pride.

This family pride, this status is what it ultimately boils down to. If Indian people just stopped worrying about their status and how others perceive them as, then there would be no problem.