Regarding adult content: We are looking into that as well as looking at having bloggers have a way to simply block out adult content based articles from showing up on their sidebars.

One thing I would plead with you all about: Don't let provincialism take over. Communities change over time naturally. Today's regulars are not necessarily tomorrows. The best thing you can do is just ignore those who get on your nerves and black list them from your own blogs.

I black list people who get on my nerves very regularly. Early on, people thought this was a terrible thing. But I think as time goes on, more people recognize the reasoning for that. Toxic people suck out the fun in blogs.

The best thing you can do is just ignore those who get on your nerves and black list them from your own blogs.

Yes, exactly....as I've said repeatedly over the weekend...MAKE the blogging experience into what you want it to be!

Toxic people suck out the fun in blogs.

That's what I was talking about.

I, however, refuse to let the lunatics take over. 

No one will "take over" whether you class them as a lunatic or not.

Brad Wardell owns the website and a few idiots overestimating their importance to this website and writing endless articles about how toxic joeuser has supposedly become will change that.

I order everyone to start writing actual articles and stop bloody moaning. This is a blogging website not the United Nations. I'm not naming names but a few of you are in the frame for playing the role of the French if this were the United Nations.

It isn't Little_Whip, or anyone else that is the problem, it is the fact that people simply can't tolerate them. It *is* toxic, though.

I mean come on, you guys are the ones going back time and again, jabbing, poking prodding. If no one commented the article would slide out of sight and be forgotten. 99.99999% of the time it is the people aligned AGAINST a poster that pumps them full of points and keeps their ideas at the top of the stack.

Another problem is obviously the time of year. I don't think that there will be this kind of angst next summer. There are people here that really, truly believe that they can influence politics by bludgeoning the opposition with their ideas, and then just calling anyone who opposes them a liar. They never consider the fact that perhaps it isn't other people's reading comprehension, but their own ability to communicate accurately what they are thinking that causes all the conflict.

We have politics shoved in our face every time we turn on the television, and most of us feel very, very strongly about how the US would be damaged if the people we oppose win. That is DAMAGED, not just annoyed temporarily. In that light people are defending themselves from something a bit worse than someone else's opinion.

My suggestion is if you don't enjoy "vitriol" don't invite it. If you don't enjoy antagonism, don't antagonize. If you don't enjoy SEEING it, don't visit the articles of people who do. You only perpetuate the discussion by banging away at it, and frankly many of these people just do this kind of thing for attention. Some people don't feel they have to be correct, sometimes just stirring the pot and making people think is enough for them. Those people really don't deserve your posts, because there's nothing you can say to persuade them. After all, to me, Persuasion is the point.

I mean, when it gets to the point that the discussion is destructive, why not just blacklist and delete the abusive posts of the people you disagree with? I know, that sounds Stalin-esque, but hey, why not? The tools are there to use. If it comes down to being bullied off the site, why let it get to you?

I think if more people used these features most of these discussions wouldn't get so out of hand. I tend to blacklist temporarily, only for a day or two until the person cools off. I generally never delete anyone's posts unless they start saying the same thing again and again. To me, if you allow the person to make their point, and leave it there for people to see, you are under no obligation to allow anything else from them. This tireless reiteration and antagonism is only good for the people who invite and enjoy a good hateful discussion.

I don't mind a spiteful hatefest every now and then, when the discussion merits it, but if it detracts from a poster's discussion, I would expect them to keep control as fairly as possible with all the tools they have. The opponent has a perfect right to go off and make a blog stating the opposite position, so it isn't like you are silencing them.

You wouldn't allow people to get in your face in your living room, why tolerate it here?

a few idiots overestimating their importance to this website

Like yourself, you mean?

why not just blacklist and delete the abusive posts of the people you disagree with?

Unfortunately some people cannot seem to let things go and will follow other bloggers around from thread to thread to spread the abuse.  You can delete and blacklist on your own blog, not on someone elses. 

My attitude to someone getting in my face in my living room and my attitude to that behaviour here are totally different.  In my home....well, some of the people who blog here would have been face down in handcuffs, escorted off the property a long time ago.

No Dharma I was actually referring to you and your collection of bitter housewife friends, or "cyber sisters" as you call them.... more like a coven!

I agree with Dharma, I do not like to see personal attacks on good men like Madpoet I think it best for all concerned if I bow out of this debate now.

Sir Peter~thank you for your kind email letting me know that one or two quite bitter bloggers here are STILL feeling the need to drop cowardly innuendoes about me on other folks threads~I would not have known otherwise. I mean, I generally tend to avoid certain toxic blogs big time, and especially those as toxic as the ones being posted by certain folks that claim they are fed up with just how toxic JU has become lately! . That leads me to the second half of this quote here~left by Dharma:

"I think it  best for all concerned if I bow out of this debate now."

Dharma~give me a break. I am sick to death of all your petty innuendoes and even outright slamming of me in your whiny little self-righteous articles, and now even on other folks threads~where some of my JU friends (and I do have several here), are merely trying to defend me, etc.

So you are sick of all the toxic attitude and articles here, huh? Really? Then why did you write and post an entire series of blogs slamming me and WiseFawn big time? Is that not toxic? Of course, you didn't even have the guts to use our names outright. Instead, you conveniently dropped several revealing innuendoes~so everybody would know who you were personally attacking, but you could hide behind your quite cowardly method of doing so.

So let me see now. You don't appreciate  "somebody" who says: "big time," A LOT, and is an "able bodied slacker on SSI."  You endlessly carry on about WiseFawn saying the infamous: "gravy train" line, but totally leave out that what you said to her soon after was a hundred times worse, etc. THAT is how YOU go about personally attacking folks you love to hate. (In fact, that's even the title of your recent blog, too: "Hatred". Hmmmmm, kinda makes you wonder....). So if you are fed up with the toxic atmosphere here~then stop being so toxic yourself.  And then simply writing ANOTHER whiny little self righteous article about how "a few" folks here are ruining it for the rest of us, and you are maybe even considering abandoning ship! . Please spare me the melodrama.

Here's the situation. You don't respect me, and think it is cool to slam me big time in your articles, and on other folks threads. You use all kinds of cheap shot innuendoes in these bitter blogs of yours~then have the audacity to say: "Enough with the innuendoes!"  yourself. You say JU is quite toxic because of these "few" very vile and evil bloggers. Well, get off your high horse then. Because so much of what you have written lately is totally toxic to the well being of JU. Just personal attacks, and an opportunity for you to have your like minded ones rally round you and shout: "YOU GO GIRL!" Just like Sir Peter has already  noticed and stated on this thread. How is that helping this site any? It only serves to boost up your ego. Period. And I am sick of your quite toxic attitude. Enough with the personal attacks and innuendoes. You have every right not to respect me. But guess what~it is totally mutual. And that kinda thing happens in life. So get over it. Like you said: Enough already. I agree. So follow your own advise for once, huh? 

And I will even leave you with a final bit of friendly advice, k? I am a Christian/Buddhist. I am certain you have heard: WWJD? (What would Jesus do?) Well, how about WWBD? (What would Buddha do?) I mean, I always take my issues to Buddha and/or Christ when I am feeling especially confused or upset about something. And this always teaches me a better way. That is exactly what happened to me when I took a long hard look at the LittleWhip situation. And now she and I are able to be polite and civil to each other, instead of feeling the need to reduce a human being into a vile and evil caricature. Even her recent "parody" of my humanitarian article only made me LMAO. I did not respond in a toxic way. I simply wrote another "parody" of her parody! . And we both laughed about it in the end.  If LittleWhip and I can do this~I am certain other JU bloggers can too. And I think that JU is actually headed in the right direction. I mean, after most of the thick toxic smoke has cleared~we will finally be able to see a better path ahead, and travel down it in a much more sure footed and less hostile sort of way. And I am truly looking forward to that kind of enjoyable blogging  journey together here. And that's all I have to say about that.

Reply #18 By: Sir Peter Maxwell - 7/4/2004 1:41:03 PM I notice I am the only person defending Madpoet from the despicable bullying he is being subjected to, truly shameful! Ahem. See my post defending MadPoet, timestamped an hour before your above quote.

David~I did notice your kind words of support. And I thank you for that. I appreciate it much. You and Sir Peter have been most generous and kind to me during all this toxic nonsense that I hope will end soon forever. And I am grateful to other JU folks that have noticed what certain bitter bloggers are attempting to do to me here (actually, I only have 2 true JU enemies. But they are QUITE prolific ones, huh? .). So I thank all of you for your friendship and support: Sir Peter, David, CareBear, Hidden Paw, Muggaz, Phoenixboi, Dyl, Jay Walker~just to name only a few of the ones that have kindly come to my defense on various threads. And why am I so evil and vile to these one or two totally bitter bloggers? Because I am on SSI? Because I blacklisted somebody?  Because I defend homosexuals, the mentally ill, the homeless, and folks on welfare big time? Because I give as good as I get? Because I actually defend myself? GASP! . So these are quite valid reasons to literally despise a fellow blogger, and slam him repeatedly in a series of hateful articles and threads? Whatever. I just am grateful that I am not the only one noticing all these personal attacks here. Because I feel less alone now. And I thank all of you for that a hundred and one times.

~Frank

(aka MadPoet)

Here Here

I hate it when friends fall out. (Or at least people who were once friendly.)

This is getting terribly off track. While I'm usually of a mind to allow thread drift I wonder if I shouldn't close the thread? Oh well, let's give it a while longer and see where it goes.

Another problem is obviously the time of year. I don't think that there will be this kind of angst next summer. There are people here that really, truly believe that they can influence politics by bludgeoning the opposition with their ideas, and then just calling anyone who opposes them a liar.

Yes. The current political climate may well be coloring the "quality" of discourse here, even bleeding over into non-controversial articles. (Someone started impugning the intelligence of other commenters for not agreeing who should be the next Spiderman villian! How controversial is that?)

I mean, when it gets to the point that the discussion is destructive, why not just blacklist and delete the abusive posts of the people you disagree with?

I think I've only blacklisted people for what they've said on other people's threads. I don't mind not reading people who aggravate me. What bothers me is disturbing comments left on articles I want to read. It pops up everywhere. My only real solution is to either not read comments (and hence not comment any more myself) or stick solely to my own blog. I don't find either solution very satisfying.

As for "fighting" the toxicity, I'm currently only willing to suggest we point out to offenders that personal insults aren't acceptable. Isolate them, ignore them, let them self-destruct. Hopefully they will get the idea. Those that don't will eventually be banned by the administration. (My only wish on that front is that the admins would be quicker and more forceful about it. Y'all are too friendly! )

The relevant parts of the JU TOS would seem to be:

(a) upload, post or otherwise transmit any Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortuous, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, pornographic, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;
(m) Interfere with another member's use and enjoyment of the Service or another entity's use and enjoyment of similar services.
(i) "stalk" or otherwise harass another;


(BTW, I have a question. Under that same section of the TOS:

(k) promote or provide instructional information about illegal activities, promote physical harm or injury against any group or individual, or promote any act of cruelty to animals. This may include, but is not limited to, providing instructions on how to assemble bombs, grenades and other weapons, and creating "Crush" sites;

What is a "Crush" site?)

What is a "Crush" site?)

It's a site created by teenage girls who have a crush on me...

or Possibly Sir Peter!!!

*runs off singing* lalalalallalalala

BAM!!!

Then why did you write and post an entire series of blogs slamming me and WiseFawn big time? Is that not toxic? Of course, you didn't even have the guts to use our names outright.

You two give yourselves too much credit. 2 articles about blogger's attitudes now constitutes a series?

So let me see now. You don't appreciate  "somebody" who says: "big time," A LOT, and is an "able bodied slacker on SSI."  You endlessly carry on about WiseFawn saying the infamous: "gravy train" line,

Please don't paraphrase me.  I never said that about you, in fact it's very apparent to me that you are mentally ill.  The gravy train comment...that was the title of the article, Franklin.  Did you even bother to go look at the rest of the comments she left? I had written that article, and another one dealing with welfare and disability before you even started blogging, so don't even think they're about you.  Oh, and have you seen the interaction between WF and I recently?  Did you see what we said to each other on her 'Bush's respect for the military' thread? WE seem to have been able to have gotten over that incident quite well.  Did you see where I said that I admired you for actually getting off your ass and doing something, for providing some comfort for the homeless in your area?  I'm guessing not.  And even if I had made comments about 'big time' etc, why would it be ok for someone else who you had  exchanged just as harsh words with to parody you, but not for me? 

As for my faith, my philosophy...well....I am human, and I admit my faults and flaws.  Please don't try to hold yourself in higher esteem in that respect than I.  My most recent 'hatred' article was NOT about you, contrary to your opinion.  Read it again.  Read the thread.  See what it's really about.

You have your cronies too, Frank.  You have your friends giving you high fives and saying 'you go, girl'.

That's all I have to say about that.  My apologies to Gene for marring your thread with this nonsense.

gah, you guys pay way too much attention to each other. If you truly believed what you seem to about the other "side", they would be inconsequential to you; barely worthy of note, much less comment.

gah, you guys pay way too much attention to each other. If you truly believed what you seem to about the other "side", they would be inconsequential to you; barely worthy of note, much less comment.

Touché Baker! touché indeed!!!

BAM!!!

Since people seem to think Bakerstreet and I are joined at the hip, this would be a good time for the story about how time can take care of all problems.  For even Bakerstreet and I didn't always get along like we do now. But time takes care of things. Some of you guys need to just get off each other's cases, quit worrying who wronged you and get back to having fun.

Often times, the limitations of written communication can give you a grossly warped impression of other people on-line.

Unfinished business:

i hope my comments are still welcome after i most uncermoniously jammed my foot in my mouth in my blog. i can only offer my apologies. please let me know if you'd prefer i refrained from commenting in future. this would in no way affect the respect i have for you. thanks

Well, Mig, I didn't blacklist you. (I''m not saying I didn't have the impulse to, I just didn't.)

Smartaz I'm sorry if the comments in my blog offended you in anyway, my intention when writing the journalism article wasn't to offend anyone at all.

Sally, no need to appologize for the thoughtless commenting of your readers.


Now that Dharma's had a chance to respond, I'm inclined to close the thread. I'll leave it open for now as long as the bickering ends and we can stick to issues rather than personalities.

Heck no, gah, some of the worst arguments I have ever had, online and off, have been with Brad. I figure there's still some slight animosity toward me, I was a *serious* ass a few times. I've been pretty pleased that he has continued to tolerate me, lol.

Frankly, if we were handed a checklist I would still probably disagree with him 80% of the time. In the past few days I've seen him express beliefs that I am the polar opposite of. I tend to think he's much more Libertarian than he likes to admit.

The difference is, though, after 5 years I have seen him decide that he was wrong many times. I've seen him comprimise, and I've seen him win other people over to his way of thinking. At one point I thought like a lot of people that he was simply a "battering ram" politically, but the idea doesn't hold up after you have known him a while.

So when I see people say that he is this fascist dictator, I can laugh it off. He had every reason to kick/ban me numerous times, and I was vastly more antagonistic than a lot of people who have been banned here. He didn't even know my conservative bent then, either. The difference is, I think, that he saw that I argued out of belief, and not the need to intellectually prove myself or make people feel small. I respect him for the same reason.

Now that Dharma's had a chance to respond, I'm inclined to close the thread.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity.  Sincerely.

When you say "close the thread" is there a way to lock it without losing all the comment? Last time I used 'edit' to do it, it hid all the comments previous.

Well, Mig, I didn't blacklist you. (I''m not saying I didn't have the impulse to, I just didn't.)

gene, i have enjoyed my communications on here with you a great deal. i would even go so far to say that you were the main reason i kept at my blog when i became rather disillusioned some time ago.

i admire you. as soon as i encountered you, i can remember thinking that it was almost a miracle to find such an open mind in such a closed world. and i don't care how dumb this makes me sound, but i am actually inspired by you, and this has really distressed me.

now, i can apologise til i'm blue in the face again here, but to be honest i think everybody is tired of seeing that. so, let me tell you something else. i can't just be "tolerated". it's not me. i have no desire to insist on being welcome where i'm not wanted. i'd like nothing more than to continue exchanging comments with you, but sometimes doors just close on me, and i'm no fighter these days. and it was just a mistake.

so, i'll end this rant with again expressing my thanks for all of your much-needed support to date. please feel free to come back to my blog at any time in the future, you're always going to be very welcome

sad vanessa XX

As a newby to the site, I have to say: I enjoy debate as long as it stays debate, but when it gets personal, it crosses the line.

When you say "close the thread" is there a way to lock it without losing all the comment? Last time I used 'edit' to do it, it hid all the comments previous.

I've clicked "edit" and changed the "who can respond" to "no-one" without losing the comments. Is that what you did? Little Whip and her husband have locked some of their threads in the past and the comments are still visible. You can ask her if that is how they did it. Maybe they've changed the coding since you last tried it?

Let my clarify that... The "X comments" changes to the commenting is disabled message, but clicking on the title, or reading it in the forums still brings up the previously left comments. Is that what you meant?

now, i can apologise til i'm blue in the face again here, but to be honest i think everybody is tired of seeing that. so, let me tell you something else. i can't just be "tolerated". it's not me. i have no desire to insist on being welcome where i'm not wanted. i'd like nothing more than to continue exchanging comments with you, but sometimes doors just close on me, and i'm no fighter these days. and it was just a mistake. . . . sad vanessa XX

Now, you see, I just don't get this.

The point was that had I wanted to stop you from posting I could easily have blacklisted you. I didn't. At about the same time as your comment, MasonM made one calling journalists scum. Him I instantly blacklisted.

No-one has asked or expected you to appologize ad nuaseum. I erased my responses to that thread and said I wouldn't be responding to those "either/or" Friday Five's anymore. End of story. I also told you on my private thread that I wouldn't be talking for a while. What part of that was not clear? Say your appologies and wait for me to feel like talking. You are the one making this great big drama.

As much as it pains me to do I now find it necessary to blacklist you. I had no intention or desire to do this, but frankly the only one who is getting in my face and making accusations against me right now are you and Muggaz. WTF? I haven't done anything to either of you and I am tired of this. As I also told you on my private thread I do not come here to be insulted and accused of things but that is exactly what you are doing.

In case you haven't noticed, I rarely respond immediately to my comment threads -- sometimes never. I had responses to your recent posts and just hadn't made them yet.

But again, I did make the effort to tell you I wouldn't be talking for a while, that I would be returning to your blog eventually, and that I had purposefully not blacklisted you so you could continue to post if you pleased. You continue to take everything I do negatively and ascribe vile motives to me. I don't get it. I felt my comments weren't welcome and withdrew them and that could have been the end of the story. You are the one following me around like a wounded puppy, not vice versa. Cut it out!

I never asked for an appology before because I didn't think one was necessary. I was going to write a private article just to you and explain things. It wasn't you I was mainly angry with anyway. But I can only do things as I can do them. My health can't take this and if you insist on following me around on my threads and essentially harrasing me (at this point) then goodbye.

I don't want it to be that way, but my health can't take this kind of conflict. There is a reason I go out of my way to avoid conflict.

I'd like to appologize to everyone else for the outburst, but enough is enough!