AI "cheats" used at genius or what the heck is this?

from Stardock Forums
Started up a tiny with only the Drengin at genius to test some things as far as AI. Thus was able to see their home on turn three and contact early so as to monitor what they're up to. Set at 100% tech so universal translator researched turn 4.

On turn 4 they had 2000 BCs showing on the trade screen. By turn 10 Drengin had built or bought a colony ship and researched defense theory. At this point he was down to 1300 BCs. The next turn he went to 2200 BCs and had a constructor pop up!

The 2000 BCs at turn 4 certainly sounds like a "cheat" given to the AI compared to the 1000 a human starts with and the 900 BC increase in a turn is difficult to explain.

We have the save game on both turns if they'll help.
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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
at genius level, the AI gets certain things human players dont. They dont cheat they just get a couple advantages such as higher revenue from taxes and perhaps they starts with more money. This was already addressed by Frogboy.

~SDC~
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
I saw the discussion of the 5% bonus to economy at genius. Hadn't seen anything talking about bonus starting money, but neither of these would explain a bump of 900 BCs in bank from turn 10 to 11. Even a 500% econ bonus wouldn't explain that.
Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
Maybe they extorted money from the other civilizations. Those "evil , nasty" Drengin are known to do that!
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
Nope, we were the only other major civ and were shadowing his survey ship from turn three (bought move plus 2 for that. It was still at his home when we found it and no scouts or other ships listed in trade once we got trade going turn 4. We did go back to the save to see where any minor civs might be. There were carinoids in the game, but they were diagonally 2 and a half sectors away. His ship didn't go anywhere near them, certainly not in sight. So if they extorted from them than they had contact with them outside the rules humans have to use.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
I think for this, cheat is closer to when they don't abide at all by the same game mechanics. In this case they cheat on their economy and get an advantageous beginning treasury.

But those levels are designed for people who find the non-cheat levels unchallenging and want more thrills anyway.

~SDC~
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
At genius the AI gets an econonomic bonus and a couple more ability points.

~SDC~
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
Frogboy, thanks for the response.

I still don't understand the 900 BC bump in a turn, even if they get advantages. Is it possible to get a sticky note that lists the advantages the AI gets at each level? That would make it much easier to measure your civilization's progress against the AI's in a game if you know how much of their economy can be attributed to bonuses. Also easier to pick up bugs, right now we would have difficulty knowing the difference between a bug and an advantage the AI is supposed to get.

Thanks!
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
There are a lot of factors that can make the AI tougher or not tougher. I would focus on trying to win. ;)

~SDC~
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
Novel idea. Novel.

~SDC~
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
Of course it cheats. A human can outplay even the best AI in any reasonably complex game. A good human player can still beat any computer in the world even in a game as simple and calculation intensive as go, Which is a finite zero sum game played by placing black and white stones on a 19X19 grid.

If the AI played by the same rules and restrictions as a skilled human opponent it would get crushed every time unless there was a concerted ganging up by multiple computer teams.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
but the AI does play by the same rules and restrictions. IN FACT, in all levels below bright, the AI has LESS than the human player. And only at genius does the AI even have any slight advantages... however it still has to abide by the same mechanics as the human.

~SDC~
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
And there have been numerous posts from the developer agreeing with me. Heh. I believe the developer.

~SDC~
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
Uh guys, remember that on ANY level AI if a civilisation gets some good random events that fall its way it's going to make a difference (like a BIG one eg: finding 4 Ranger starships early [that I got]) so maybe that's why. Frogboy et. al have emphasised that the AI doesn't cheat cheat, but it gets a lot of bonuses...

~SDC~
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
AI plays by the same rules as the human player in terms of game mechanics. At higher AI levels (including genius) the AI gets ability bonuses and an economic bonus. But those are percentage modifiers. It's not, for instance, conjuring units. Destroyng a key base or taking a key planet will still hurt the AI terribly.

~SDC~
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
You want to see what it does. Look in the debug.err. It looks like the things the AI is doing has been put back.
They do a lot of trading. They threaten others for money etc.
I still find it strange that ever time the AI does something that the player does not know how to do the AI is accused of cheating.
If you find a bug label it as a bug.
If you don't know how the AI does something label. How does the AI do ....
I am getting tired of this continual wining about how the AI is cheating.
Brad has been very clear on what rules the AI plays by.

So lets stop these AI cheats threads.


~SDC~
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
Bah. Of course the AI cheats. It keeps me up all Friday, all Friday night, all Saturday, and now I'm so tired I loose all the time...

;)