Efficient Builds: Learn how to play here

from Sins Forums
General Build Strategies: ALWAYS buy the crystal at the beginning IF you can at 300. Usually buy at 350. Never buy at above 350. IF you bought 2 crystal at the beginning, ALWAYS upgrade your capital (+3 income). It's a better investment than any other source of income.

ALWAYS colonize asteroids first. They are, by FAR, the best planet type. This is due to the ease in which you get them "operational" -> no negative upkeep. Deserts are better than Terran, both are better than Ice, and Volcs are the worst.

ALWAYS scuttle your cap shield yard unless you need it in the near future. It takes up a logistic slot and gives you back a lot of cash/resources.

Tec:
TWO viable builds

Kol or Mazra. If Mazra, either radiation bomb or incinerate first skill, raze second. If Kol, SAVE skill point. If the opponent has a carrier, use the flak ability. If he has a battleship, Gauss ability.

Build 1: 2 Civil, Trade post spam, get to full pop with cap ship + Cobalts, THEN 2 Military, possibly add a second cap ship for tanking (Kol if you have Mazra, Akkon if you have Kol), then spam LRMs, upgrade supply as needed.

Build 2: 2 Military, spam cobalts for early map control. Once LRMs are available, spam LRMs, using cobalts as tank/screen/scout. No second cap ship, hit outlying colonies, ff their cap ships or light frigates. Build 2 is the best build on smaller maps.

Advent:
TWO viable builds

Mothership or Radiance first. Radiance is a better capital ship fighter, mothership is a lot better in team fights. With Radiance, antimatter burn first. With mothership, either colonize or shield buff first (larger maps, colonize first is good, otherwise, shield regen).

Build 1: 3 Military, spam disciples to full pop, upgrade pop, spam illuminators and hope opponent quits. If you can afford it, a second capital is useful, but you're going to be broke all game.

Build 2: 3 Civil, spam disciples to full pop, up pop, 2nd cap ship, take colonies, 3-5 military, Guardian cruisers + defense frigates + DPS (whatever you want).

NOTE that Advent needs at LEAST 3/3 research, while Tec should NEVER go above 2/2 research.

Vasari

Vasari is either really bad (but unbalanced...), or I'm terrible with them

They have 2 advantages: The scouts take mineral extractors (WOW), yeah that's REALLY REALLY good, and Dark Fleet. Dark Fleet is by FAR the most powerful tech in the game.

Let's abuse it with the cheapest (most ridiculous) strategy ever

Take 1 asteroid near you. Build a cap ship (whatever you want, I usually get evacuator for its armor burn). Up logistic in both your home and expansion while taking every neutral mineral extractor you can get your hands on. Research tech 5 phase stabilizer, then tech 7... then dark fleet. You can do it amazingly fast. Turret up your asteroid so it's a pain breaking through. Once darkfleet 1 is researched, game is already over. Poor them.

I'll update the post if anyone posts new strats, with explanation, and after some discussion. This will be a good place for newbies (and otherwise) to learn how to properly play this game.
strategy
10,723 views 16 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
" This will be a good place for newbies (and otherwise) to learn how to properly play this game MY WAY."

...fixed.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
game's been out for a week. we're all newbs :)

generally i agree with the early crytal investment and the cap yard scuttle points..

the only thing i dunno about is ur emphasis on asteroids.. yes they are operational earlier and good for early game expansion.. but planets are strategically and economically more important (and dont fall as easily and actually have pop capacity <--investing in asteroid pop capacity is a waste of money and overpriced).. not sure why u hate on the volcano planets either.. i guess they are less important for advent and vasari.. but ive been playing tec exclusively for now

everything else looks generally the same as my game..
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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Good for people who play small maps only
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
"Efficient Builds: Learn how to play here"
It simply translates to: "These strategies work for me, perhaps they can work for you." It's not like he's forcing it down anyone's throat.

Of course, the OP is obviously terrible with the Vasari. :P Heh, heh, heh... The Vasari Dark Fleet strategy is not ridiculous. It takes work to accomplish and a player that knows what they are doing to survive with a fleet of frigates. Not many play the Vasari, it takes work. :P I won't deny that the amount of ships that Dark Fleet provides is a little insane.

Don't waste you starting creds on crystal, it's not like your army needs it yet.

Vasari:
First Cap Ship: Carrier or Battlecruiser (I prefer the carrier).
Your starting ship building should be this: 3 scouts (auto-scout), several skirmishers (until you have 6 capacity left), and a single colonizer to finish off your fleet capacity.

Spend your early researching getting the first four levels of the resource gathering skill. This requires a total of 3 imperial labs. (or is it 4 labs?). If you are on a map with lot's or ice/volcanic planets then you will likely want to hold off on the levels 3&4 of the resource gathering and get the volcanic/ice colonization. You'll want to work your way towards Return Armada (dark fleet). As soon as you get the dark fleet established you want to focus on boosting your fleet capacity as much as possible. The dark fleet will make your cap ships a burden to you, don't worry about losing them in battle.

Your warfare research if very simple. Tech up the repair skill (second in at the very bottom) as it will help heavy cruisers (enforcers) and standard frigates (Skirmishers). You will want the repair facility as well, it comes in handy in saving you money.

Ignore defenses... don't waste your money on them. Always keep an offensive fleet and a defensive fleet. The offensive fleet will protect the front lines until you actually go offensive. The defensive fleet will handle rebels and pirates, and guard while your offensive fleet is away. The only defenses you might need are the repair facilities, and possibly the anti-matter drain structure... and the planetary shields if your enemy builds a novalith.

Battle Strategy:
Learn to focus fire. Target a specific ship and kill it, then move on to the next. Ignore cap ships (use bombers on them). Micromanage your ships' repair skill (they don't make good use of it themselves).

Advent:
Combat Strategy:
Build Guardians and train their Repulsion skill.
Build Illuminators and train their special skill.
Build a fleet of Illuminators with plenty of guardians.
Take control of you guardians and activate repulsion. :P
Keep the enemies at bay while your illumators pick them off from out of enemies firing range.
*Repulsion is a fantastic way to keep the enemies away from your structures, or even to push the enemy away from their retreat zone.
*I love herding. :P
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
game's been out for a week. we're all newbs


Not those of us that were in the beta :P

Don't waste you starting creds on crystal, it's not like your army needs it yet.


Actually, I buy crystal early on to get both my capitol yard and my starting planets pop upgrade going ASAP.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
i experience with Vasari it is best to get 1 military get assailants spammed and maybe some frigates then you go clear/take a couple roids and clear a few ice planets while you go to annoy the enemy (abuse early vasari military superiority) to beat him or to even out the economy imbalance by expanding back behind the front while keeping your enemy under your thumb (1v1)
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
To Daikaze, my Vasari is definitely the weakest of my 3 races. I plan on training it some more. I said, I only KNEW one strat with Vasari. That said, your strategy has serious flaws.

First, it is well known (and can be shown easily) that researching harvesting upgrades early is a complete waste of resources. You're better off spending that money on map control. Crystal is ALWAYS the limiting resource constraint, unless you're bad and can't micro/research.

Furthermore, carriers are almost always a bad choice (EXCEPT tec simply because of Embargo). I think you play either too many big/drawn out games vs scrubs (who don't do anything and let you get all those resources), or you play vs the AI, because if you played against ANY humans in a 1v1, those strategies would fail epic.

I do have some new theories for Vasari, which I will test out. Again, this thread is not about MY WAY OR NO WAY, it's about figuring out the optimal strategies for each race. Tec is pretty much set. Right now, as far as balance goes, Tec is the strongest, and anyone who says different either is playing vs the computer or is terrible at gamesense.

So I'm going to create a 1v1 challenge/replay/builds/theory thread testing out various ways to beat the Tec strat of LRM spam. Is it beatable? Who knows. But, the point of these threads isn't to limit the total number of builds available. Instead, it's to point how WHY a build works, HOW it works, and how we can improve on existing strategy.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah, I don't really play 1v1 maps, and I don't see a point in playing against AI. I like having multiple people around. My favorite matches are 2v2v2. :)

My Vasari strategy works. I suppose it's hard to fully explain the strategy involved, but it works. In small maps I am more likely to go for a militaristic route than go for the dark fleet. Although, I usually play Advent for the small maps. Overall, my strategy relies on my basic frigates and their ability to repair themselves. The only carrier I make use of is the Capital ship carrier. It has the ability to repair nearby units (including drones) and it can provide additional bombers to the field via an ability. The point is to draw out the battles while I focus fire on specific targets. I prefer to handle my battles manually. I still find that the research upgrades are worth it, even early on, but I like to expand quickly too.

If I get attacked by multiple players I will usually be unable to pull off a Dark Fleet, but if I'm not getting double team I can usually pull through.

The skirmisher strategy is very useful, because it means I don't have to spend additional crystal on ships. :P All of my crystal can go towards funding more research or structures. I'm usually the one that sends fleets of ships to assist my allies.


In a 1v1 game? I don't have much of a strategy for it. I'd probably emphasize the use of skirmishers (upgraded with repairs) and then work towards acquiring the carrier cruisers and the enforcer.


I'll be playing later... I'll try and get some replays.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
I several mp games and won all 1v1, some vs decent players using the illum spam strat. I play as vassari , my first cap is either colonizer either carrier.

I tech up to carrier and do 4 missile upgrades and armor. If enemy is lrm heavy I make lots of sentinels otherwise carriers all the way. I get 2nd cap somewhere (either 2nd carrier either first one). 2 carriers are awesome since they heal each other. And I do build a lot of defences on a border worlds (5-6 hangers) .
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
Here's a Dark Fleet replay vs decent players (The Advent was weaker than the Tec player)

http://rapidshare.com/files/92247561/Dark_Fleet_2v2.record.html

So, Dark Fleet needs a nerf, but LRM needs a nerf too :(
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
I am still learning to play the advent well. I get my ass kicked because of big fleet spams by one of the enemies AI, he was fighting with one of my allies for a planet next door. My allies has lots of weak ships but did not manage to keep hold on the planet. After that, the AI came for me, and i was toasted after 5 minutes of battle. :(
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
Adding a Vasari build for small map 1v1:

Here's the EXACT Queue order

Buy 2 crystal if possible (if you load first)
Build capital shipyard
Build crystal mine (you have 2 workers)
Upgrade home planet
Start building navs (build 3 total)

Build your 2 metal mines when your workers finish their current assignments

Build a cap ship (I guess the battleship, it's a preference thing)

Build colony frigate (if not going evacuator) while cap ship is building

When finished with cap ship, scuttle the cap shipyard

Build war research, research assailants

Use cap ship to take a nearby asteroid

Start assailant spam

If the map is random (which, after some playtesting, I detest), you may or may not get neutral extractors. One game, I had 6. That was insanely easy. The next game was far positions on a large 1v1 map with 0 neutral extractors. That was insanely hard.

Upgrade your population cap to 250, and continue assailant spam
You should have scouted your opponent by now. Add a second war research at asteroid, research sentinels. If he has a carrier type cap or drone cruisers or whatever, start sentinel production.

Take an asteroid near your opponent's expansion. Build 2 frigate factories at forward base for easier queuing. Invade, and hopefully end the game. If you haven't won by that point, you're in for a rough ride. Advent will shield abuse, and Tec will have an econ advantage (with broken LRMs). Good luck.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
(with broken LRMs)


LOL
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
Adding a Vasari build for small map 1v1:



That is pretty much a strat I use sometime. Except I start teching up early if the map is decent size (e.g. small random map is plenty big ,but something like point blank map is not). If I do assailant spam I research 4 levels of phasic missilies and charged missiles. Plus hp and armor. I usually split the forces for taking over systems(1 is cap, another is frigs ).

I dont see beneficial of spamming light frigs and attacking right from the bat unless opponent is a newbie idiot(though which seems 90% are) - if you neglect expansion and eco it will bite you in the butt later. 1 cap and 20 lrms are easily countered by hanger defence plus a bit of force of your own.

Funny I never tried dark armada , I just sorta dont want to gamble my expansion on single tech and the tech is immesnely expensive , on top of that each gate cost crapload of money and any rusher can make short work of it if you dont have decent defence - all of that makes you stretch too thin if you go for armada.
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top

Yeah, I don't really play 1v1 maps, and I don't see a point in playing against AI.


I see. Then you'll have to admit that you have little useful advice for those of us who play exclusively against the AI.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
The advice isn't completely invalid though. Besides I don't see anything that states this thread is only about playing against the AI. I was simply sharing a strategy that works for me. I'm still fine tuning it, Vasari is a bit of a pain early game, as a rush will undoubtedly wreak havoc on such a plan.

Of course, the Advent strategy works just fine against players and AI.