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Balance/Builds Analysis: Attempt to raise the level of the community

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Balance/Builds Analysis: Attempt to raise the level of the community

from Sins Forums
Every game I've played online has been a horribly 1-sided stompfest. We're not talking like oh wow I killed his cap ship, he resigned. We're talking I have 2000 pop, he has 150, or I lose 0 units, he loses 3 caps and 50 frigates. Time for the community to learn how to play this game properly.

Illums suck. There, I said it.

Why do they suck so much? Let's go over the details.

Illums split their dps 3 ways. Their single target dps is crap. This means any attempt at microing the useless turds is wasted, as you get higher dps output charging into melee range and wishing them good luck. This is even more true when you factor in shield mitigation. So, it is clear from this argument that Illums must melee to be at all effective.

What does this imply? Several things. First, why are LRMs (TEC specifically) so good? IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE DOUBLE THE RANGE OF Illums. Even if they DIDN'T, they'd still be the superior unit. 4 supply to 6, HALF as much crystal to create, and BETTER single target dps. If THAT'S not enough (and oh god it should be), their armor type DIRECTLY counters the poor Illums. Illum does 75% to the LRM, the LRM counters at a full 100%. So, in a straight up fight, the LRMs CRUSH the Illums. Yes, CRUSH. Even IF the Illums magically manage to close that enormous distance, the LRM player has the OPTION of just warping out after wiping out half the Advent fleet, OR staying and finishing off the forces.

So why are Advent good? Because of ridiculously powerful shield regen (mothership) and the shield mitigator cruisers. The Illuminator, is crap. It's total, unmitigated crap. The heavy cruiser (Crusader), if you bother to actually run the numbers, it far far far superior as a dps source. It's not even close. But, because the game is new, many players are confused about how to play the factions. So here it is, the ONLY way to play the factions, and I DARE anyone to prove me wrong. Note, this is for 1v1 only, and there's a brief 2v2 strat that is COMPLETELY 100% UNBEATABLE. As in, unless you KNOW it's coming and HARDCORE counter it, it will ALWAYS win.

SO PAY ATTENTION.

Tec: 1 cap ship (mazra or Kol 100%), 2 civil for trade early (medium maps only), 2 military for LRM, spam LRMs til they forfeit. If they get fighter/bomber, make flak. LRM/Flak is not counterable early game (Flak not needed unless they have Fighters). Tec should never lose a 1v1 on a small map, ever. 2v2, Tec always goes trade early, feeds his ally if ally is not Tec, pushes/pressures his opponent while his ally (Advent or Vasari) techs to super ships.

Advent: Only one reason to play Advent -> Cap ship + shield abuse. Get your Radiance early to counter any other cap ship hardcore (antimatter burn is ridiculously OP). Then, build whatever you need to secure bases. Build Illums if you have to, but Disciples are quite strong early. Eventually, get the Mothership (NOT OPTIONAL) for its superpowered shield regen. 3rd ship should either be another Mothership or the ship with +10,20,30% damage. Both are powerful. Get yourself some guardians, and then some source of dps (my favorite are crusaders). Then go kick some butt. You're basically unkillable unless they build shield disruption. EVEN THEN, you're still hard to kill, and you pack a big punch. As always, ignore fighters/carriers, flaks counter them COMPLETELY.

Vasari: NOT VIABLE 1v1 on most maps. Why? They suck. End of discussion. Their assailants are weaker versions of LRM, their cap ships suck, their special abilities suck. Viable in 1v1 on larger maps, for the same reason they are the BEST 2v2 race. Why? Fast rush that Dark Fleet. You can Dark Fleet off of TWO colonies, including your home. That's home planet + asteroid ---> Dark Fleet. Figure out the build yourself, but suffice it to say, with enough phase missile turrets, nobody can kill you early game, and late game is just ugly. 2v2, have your Tec ally feed you and watch the fun. It's. Great. Fun.

Now, if you think these builds are somehow wrong, feel free to prove me wrong. But, they aren't wrong, because people don't really look at stats. They just think "WOW this game JUST came out, so it MUST be balanced." WRONG. 99% of all games come out horribly unbalanced, and need to be fixed asap. The other 1% have no multiplayer community to find the unbalance.

For instance, Dark Fleet needs to have a pop cap (as in, you can only have 100 or 200 Dark Fleet ships total in your current fleet), and Vasari need a buff to their midgame force (and early game force, skirmishers suck).

At the very least, now you guys KNOW what builds I run, and HOPEFULLY present some sort of reasonable challenge before folding like little rag dolls. Thanks for your time.
strategy
24,555 views 63 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top
I'd like to see a nerf to dark armada and a buff to Vasari beg/mid game, they are my favorite race.

Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top
Is that whole line about LRMs being unstoppable early game a joke?

Instead of getting illuminators, Advent get Drone carriers at tier two and are incredibly effective against LRM frigates. And trust me, Advent can get a shitload of fighters, enough to put a TEC LRM spammer in its place.

Also, any player worth his salt can easily micro his fighters to stay away from the flak frigates and make them chase.

Also, why go for Radiance or Progenitor when you can get Revalation. Reverie is incredibly powerful for a level one ability. 30 seconds of cap ship uselessness? Thats practically the fight on a silver platter. AM bomb and shiel regen are nice, but why even bother dealing with the other cap ship's abilities when you can disable them for a milennia.
Curtains - Customize Windows with additional styles
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top
All good players will hold position with flak frigates so that they DON'T chase...

The Tec player isn't powerful because of his cap ship. When you go Reverie, you're trading your cap ship for his (essentially, since your ship won't have the antimatter to do anything else but keep his out of battle). In fact, the reason Advent is so good midgame is largely due to the shield regen (which far outstrips any other capital ship ability).

The real problem with drone carriers is they are significantly more expensive that LRMs, and lose badly to mass flaks (which Tec can get easily). If the Tec player is smart, they put their LRMs at max range (which is enormously large), and CAMP (hold position) their flaks in the LRM formation. Any fighters attempting to harass LRMs will get crushed, and your Revelation will get FFed and die. It's good in theory, but until Flaks get nerfed so as to not devastate fighters, your strategy won't work against good Tec players.
Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top
Heh well I wish to play 1 vs 1 against competent player .I won all of my 10 1 vs1 games playing as a vasari , so for all the say that they suck I didnt see the suck yet (maybe they do but I never saw anyoone competent enough to defeat me) .
Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top
Hence, against any LRM massing player the real answer is using Flak Frigates/Defense Frigates/Whatevers simply because LRMs can't kite them and secondly the Flak Frigates take virtually no damage from the said things. Toss up bubble as Advent + Shield Regen to tank for a bit before your units get into position. You did bring five of them with you right ? At the very least?
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top
Wow,

I'd like to say I got something from this thread, but I'm too busy laughing at the jackass to listen to anything he is saying.

Wow, so you think you are good at this game. Good for you. Bet your parents are so proud.

Nice of you to try and 'raise the level' of others, but maybe try a different tact to getting your point across other than the 'I am a God' attitude.

The game has been out a week, my bet is you are getting your ass kicked before the end of the month. I'd put it 2 to 1.
Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top
Anyone who thinks Illums are worthless and that you should get the battleship as your flagship needs to stop playing Advent.

Fact is, a mothership flagship with level one shield regen can clear out any system at the start of the game. Want a Terran planet? A couple ice? Just send in your mothership and keep clicking shield regen.

I don't know how anyone would play Advent this way.
Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top
quote from beginning of topic
"So here it is, the ONLY way to play the factions, and I DARE anyone to prove me wrong. Note, this is for 1v1 only, and there's a brief 2v2 strat that is COMPLETELY 100% UNBEATABLE. As in, unless you KNOW it's coming and HARDCORE counter it, it will ALWAYS win."

so let me get this straight, your strategy is completely unbeatable, unless they happen to...beat it?

interesting.
Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top
I just thought of this: If the Illum only fires its lasers are targets from front/left/right (aka one laser per target) why not make it like the Defense vessel? The Defense has 6 pulse lasers, that fire in a 360% degree area. So you could easily make the Illum just have the same option. 3 front lasers or alternatively they could fire behind. ALthough, given their decent damage range with all 3, I think it might require abit of a damage tweak too >_>
Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top
defender has 4 arcs, not 6.
Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top
Anyone who thinks Illums are worthless and that you should get the battleship as your flagship needs to stop playing Advent.

Fact is, a mothership flagship with level one shield regen can clear out any system at the start of the game. Want a Terran planet? A couple ice? Just send in your mothership and keep clicking shield regen.

I don't know how anyone would play Advent this way.


Haha.

Fact 1: Illums do 25% less damage against light armor and 50% less damage against medium.
Fact 2: Illums do less single target damage than the other long range frigates making them, at best, on par with LRMs (unit to unit, not resources spent) when killing cap ships.
Fact 3: Illums require more research and are more expensive.

They are good later, yes. As a compliment to heavy cruisers and AoE firepower when you've already made them unkillable with a ton of Guardians. That doesn't have much relevance to smaller games however.

The reason the mothership would be a secondary choice in small games is that it gets owned by opponent battleship/LRMs regardless of its shield boosting because you will run out of antimatter/hull long before he runs out of ships to kill you with. Gauss cannon > Shield boosting, so armor does matter. Not to mention that apparently according to pulled data that it seems to be slower than the other cap ships making it even harder to try to retreat. The mothership does pay off later in the game, sure, but it doesn't cut it in an early t1/t2 encounter since it's useless vs other cap ships. Besides, if your goal is to avoid his cap ship and kill off his units, the Revelation battlecruiser is far superior.

But the mothership is great for clearing planets from pirates!!! Hilarious.
Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top

To the OP ..

Play larger maps! You're unbeatable strategy goes all to hell when you play larger maps! Even if you play FFA and 10 players the game dynamic is completely different. I agree that LRM's are like light (or maybe better) Cruisers early, and cheap ones at that, but position is really, really important on larger maps. Tactics are important, micro, micro, micro!! I make tons of three and four ship fleets and micro them to focus fire on ANY ship that is giving me problems. Especially early, a few 3 and 4 ship fleets in a task force can rain hell on unsuspecting victims. I carry this philosophy into the late game as well. It gets tougher to deal with of course, but for the really important battles, there is nothing like clicking on your fleets individually and smoking everything in sight


I've seen more worthless posts in my life but I digress. You're really missing the point. Larger maps may change the dynamic but is it an excuse to make smaller maps completely imbalanced? No , not really. Furthermore, if that's the case why even have smaller maps? And aside from stating the obvious, you have yet to show any replays of your work or contribute to this thread.

To those of you who think my retort was pointless, I am merely pointing out what not to say in a thread such as this. Consider your arguments carefully.


Well, thanks; I appreciate the schooling. :)

My "point" to the OP's useless post, is that even on small maps, tactics can win out over strategy, especially build dtrategies. Stick one LRM in a map with an Illuminator, and the LRM will win, but just barely. My point was so what? When is this ever going to happen? It's not, and even if you have 50 LRM's, and your opponent has 50 illumnators, doesn't mean you're going to win .. Anything. I was adding to this "thread" by simply mentioning that tactics generally win out over "perceived" weaknesses in unit strentgth. By employing a focus fire approach with many little fleets, you can (anyone can test this) destroy the other players ships at a rate no less than 3 to 1, or a 300% efficiacy rating. Whereas by letting the AI just bang it out, the results might be vastly different.

I would like to add that what I am proposing is not an easy thing to do, especially in the heat of battle, and the larger picture of managing your empire. Queing is very important, and queing in the right order and appropriate timing is also key, so that you can free up your time to truly micro your fleet(s) and be aggressive .. Or proactive .

Now, I don't care one iota whether you found my advice useful, or "obvious", so what? Seriously man, what do I have to prove to you? Nothing, absolutely nothing my good man. You can take what I said and laugh, or "call-me-out", but I don't care .. You're a nobody; entwined in a medium of a whole host of nobody's, myself included. Anyone that feels the need to "show the other guy" because he can't allow his pride to be stomped on is a moron .. I have no ego to bruise my good man. I enjoy this game, in fact, I love it. My 40 year old friends and I have been waiting for a game like this for, well, forever. Now if the idiots at ROME Total War have been paying attention, they might actually be able to figure out how to make their game a REAL multiplayer game now, instead of a build fest that usually become entirely predictable.. :)

So StarDock, and IC, but you're method's and designs that have played off of the SupCOM design are going to change the way $X games will be from this point on! That's if anyone is paying attention that is ..


Anyway, I have nothing to prove to you or anyone. My advice is sound tactically, if you agree then good, if not, so what, but I would suggest that anyone learning this game and really interested in play MP online with the "I got's the best strat goon squad's" get to know how to micro your fleets into little 3 and 4 ship groups. You'll increase your chances of coming out the victor in so doing..

Good day!


Tim-

Reply #38 from Sins Forums Top
I'm no guru of this game, but I am not close to convinced that Vasari's Returning Fleet is OP.

First off, if your opponent lets you sit there on just two planets (starting planet, and an asteroid) and tech straight up to the dark armada while ignoring everything else, he gets what he deserves.

Second off, if he does get what he deserves, he is still not guaranteed a loss by any means. The phase stabilizer has to charge up to cast the spell, and it's not like the entire dark armada comes through - only a few ships. This means you need quite a few of the phase stabilizers to get a decent amount of ships out per spell cast. Well, you can't have enough phase stabilizers on just two worlds (one of which is an asteroid) to do anything. After getting your Returning Fleet, you'll spend quite a while just conquering other worlds to get enough phase stabilizers working to make it worthwhile.

Third off, you spend quite a lot of time and money teching up to Returning Fleet. That's a lot of research labs, a lot of reseach, a lot of resources (resources which you are having to wait a long time for, since you only have 2 worlds), a lot of logistic slots, and a lot of phase stabilizers.

Fourthly, you end up getting whatever the game sends through - it's not like you get to choose the ships you want. Now, I understand that they are "free," and that's great. But the point is, it's not perfect. I played a game once where all the stabilizers ever sent through were those flak frigs and pretty much nothing else.

I saw a game where two vasari, who were teamed together, both got dark fleet. They put out a lot of free ships. They still lost. Now, maybe those players sucked compared to you, but the point is, I haven't seen total vasari domination on multiplayer at this point.

Again, I'm no guru - maybe it will turn out in the next few weeks or months to be OP. But I'm not close to declaring that at this point.
Reply #39 from Sins Forums Top
Dark Armad imho is useless on small maps. For the amount of resources it takes to tech up and build those phase gates you could have won game twice already. And big maps... anyone really play them?- because I havetn seen a single game in mp on big map ending succesfully (either host crashes, either people drop out - all because It last shitload of time and is very boring) .
Reply #40 from Sins Forums Top
Okay, so dark armada.

Resources needed: about 2500 crystals + obscene ammount of credits for the research (not to mention the time needed), then 1500 more creds / 300 more crystals a piece for the gates.

Furthermore, you need 8 labs for them, which as we know mean: 32 logi points. also the 8 labs cost like 6000 credits and 600-700 crystals.

While it is mathematically possible to build 8 labs on the HW and an asteroid colony, you will sure as hell not get enough resources to get the labs, research and gates done without expanding first.

Even if you do get the gates, it is only 50 points worth of ships / 10-12 minutes or so. So with 2 gates it takes an eternity to replace even small losses. You will need 4-6 gates minimum for the tech to start working in your favor.

Bottomline: even if you go straight for that, ignoring all other research / production, you will only get yourself broke for basically nothing, as unless you got the critical ammount of gates, the tech is just not worth it.

Once you have 5-6 gates tho, you can just keep researching fleet cap techs, and bump your command points to heaven without worrying about supply costs. You will not spend on anything other than research after that point anyway.

At this point, unless the enemy did tech up to some kind of superweapon and your teammate is not a complete waste of living space, you probably won already. Even if you are alone against two, you will have a fighting chance as with the increased fleet cap and the +15% technology, you may very well have more ships alone, than the other two players together. Correction, not ships, as vasari ships are ridiculously expensive point wise, but more command points to build ships from.
Reply #41 from Sins Forums Top
Is the OP right about returning armada being overpowered?

Well, yes and no. The ability itself is not overpowered, but the ability to build a single gate that not only allows you free travel around your empire, but also provides reinforcements is.

The ideal fix would be separating the two. Making the gates chaper (tac point cost the same), but crate a different orbital (8-10 tac points) called dark armada beacon or something, that allows the returning armada to use the gate in the system to return there. It would make building these things more of a tactical decision instad of being an absolute nobrainer, and also make them more expensive not only credit / material wise - they should be on par with the experimental cannons when you add the gate + beacon costs together - but also in terms of tactical points they use. This way you might not want to fill every planet with them by deafult as building them would pretty much mean no defense for the planet.

Also limit them to 1 / planet max. ATM you can have as many as you can fit on a single planet, which is just insane. To be honest i didnt count with that in my original two planet evaluation, (asteroid can have 2 gates now, while homeworld fits 3) tho i still believe that you would never get enough resources to get the research / gate building done with just 2 planets.

My .20 credits.
Reply #42 from Sins Forums Top


Snip

The real reason Vasari CAN do well is because they can steal neutral extractors. So if there are a TON of neutral extractors on the map, they can do well. It's even better if the map is small, so they can leverage the early income advantage into an assailant/sentinel/etc push. If the map is big, and there are no neutral extractors, Vasari really are gimped compared to Tec.

So, as to YOUR point, I was TESTING what I originally claimed, and I believe my original claim. Where's the inconsistency?


ALL races can capture the neutral extractors (using crew extractor), Vasari use the scout, TEC and Advent use the colony ship. No difference there. Your lack of accuracy weakens your whole position.

pek
Reply #43 from Sins Forums Top
Wow, that's the stupidest post I've ever read.

Let's compare the colony ship and navigator. What does a colony ship DO? It takes COLONIES. How many colony ships do you have? 1? 2? I usually make 3-4 Navigators. My navigators move 2-3 times as fast as your colony ships, can fight your colony ships (kill them in system), I have maybe 4 times as MANY of these ships, and you seriously think you can contest the neutral extractors? You. Have no idea what you're talking about.
Reply #44 from Sins Forums Top
The one planet + asteroid is just an example of how little space is needed to get the tech, it's not a strategy, so no need to feel proud of yourself for defeating that little bit.

Superweapons/supertechs aren't a problem in small maps. Nobody said they were. The problem lies somewhat in medium and a LOT in large+ maps. Don't use small maps as an example how it isn't overpowered when you know damn well you can't say the same thing about larger map sizes.

In a large, or even some medium, maps there is little harassment and even an end of tree tech is easy to obtain. The continual investment and multiple phase stabilizers means that eventually you will be permanently at your pop cap in free ships. On a medium map, with multiple but not a rediculous number of stabilizers I never left my pop cap. Eventually it was fully researched as I had little else to spend resources on. I ended up with over 60 carrier cruisers with even more destroyers and a smattering of other strike craft, all free. Fun for I attacked the fully developed pirate base with half of my summoned fleet. They destroyed everything and were replaced faster than they were lost. Even vs the almost uncountable pirate base fleet, which filled my entire sidebar with grey units, they could not inflict more casualties than were being summoned in at any one time.

On small maps the balance is fine, but on larger maps there is a problem.
Reply #45 from Sins Forums Top
I think I need to clarify my point on the Dark Fleet.

I NEVER SAID IT WAS VIABLE 1V1. No way, no how, can you invest that much unaided.

But do it in a 2v2 medium map with a Tec ally going economy first. Remember to build 3-4 Navs AT LEAST. I micro my Navs to hell, but if you're lazy, build at least 5. Take every neutral extractor on the map. YES YOU CAN DO IT, JUST DON'T SUCK. Dance the pirates if you need to, navs are fast. Now your crystal/metal income will be the highest in the game, and it will STAY the highest until you go into high upkeep (or, if the opponent has a Vasari, in which case it's a race to the extractors). Build up some static D at a choke colony. Let's take a timeout to understand more clearly how static D works.

You pay around 350/75/25 for each turret. The turret has 20 dps (all purpose) and > 3000 hp with high armor (depending on how upgraded you are). That cost is less than the cost of a illuminator once you account for crystal cost. It has NO research cost or requirements. It costs ONE tactical slot (you can have 5 without upping tactics at all). It's only slightly more than most light frigates. As a tradeoff, you use ZERO population limit, you get 3000 heavily armored hp (which is just... wow), and you do DOUBLE the dps of any other comparable ship. So why is static D, as some people say, a "joke?" They take FOREVER to kill, and are a good stopgap to invasion. On the other hand, hanger D, is useless vs good players. When the opponents have flak/aa of any kind, your fighter/bombers drop like flies, and hangers don't replace them very quickly. They cost around FOUR times as much (tactical + cost, advent is SIX times as much), and have twice the hp. They... are crap. Don't touch them.

So how does the build work? Tec takes some colonies, gets a long trade route going (4-5 at least), has a ton of credits and stays at low upkeep.

Pumps the Vasari a ton of cash, while Vasari hardcore techs. I usually only take asteroids as Vasari, but each additional asteroid is another node. I also secure chokepoints as needed so that my territory is easy to defend. For most of the game, the opponents are feeling pretty good. They have more map control, they have more resources... and then a blob of ships starts its advance.

Even after the first 1-2 summons, I have enough ships to go on the offensive. I take 1 opponent territory, bomb it to submission, and take it over. Then I build an offensive phase stabilizer node, and start warping everything into their stronghold. Soon enough, they quit.

You would be SHOCKED by how fast you can pull off a Dark Fleet with a good Tec ally.
Reply #46 from Sins Forums Top
Dark Fleet is not so impossible to pull in 1vs1. But you cant just rush to it and hope it will save you.

A strategy that i have been working on based on 1vs1 dark fleet and seems to be working preaty well, allthough it still needs testing and tweeking is this:

This strategy works a lot better against the advent then TEC so i am only going to talk abaout a 1vs1 vs a TEC player.

The main strategy is to be very aggresive in the begining and get a small empire going and then defend till dark fleet.

Note :x/y means x military research centers/y civilian reserch centers

You begin by getting 4 navigators and going for extractors. You should build al least 4 navigators but the number should be something like nr_of_navigators = no_of_planets_with_free_extractors+1or 2 more. You send 1 streight to the enemy's home planet and the other to get the free extractors.

Go for 1/0 then go for a fast assailant/skirmisher army (use the fact that vasari get there LRM frigate at tier 1, the army should contain more assailents that will be the damage dealers and a couple of skirmishers that will be the tanks) and the Korthul + a colonization frigate. You could go for other capital ships but i recomand this one. After that go coloniseing. At this time the enemy fleet should be on the move. Allways keep a navigator close to the enemy fleet - you should allways know where they are (you may lose some navigators , but with good micro it shouldn't be too many), and also have another navigator scouting their planet to see their tech level.

The next move depends on the enemy. If the enemy goes for planet colonization go for a 1/4 to get tradeing centers. If the enemy is more aggresive got another militari center and get restauration or sentinels( this is a grate ability that makes the skirmisher a VERY powerfull tank). These first harrasment attemps should be easily defeated, the only unit you should be afraid of are Javelins so these are your main target, but being so early in the game the TEC player should not have a lot of them and because you started you assailants production earlier then you should be ok. Also skirmishers with restauration are a lot better then cobalts and become very good meat sheilds.

After this you should have gathered arount 4-5 planets (usualy 4 but on some maps you can get 5). You should chose the planet not by what they are(ice/astoroid) but by how the front line is going to look. You should be able to have only 2 choke point. Now start defending, this is the point where Javelin spam is going to hit its maximum so start bunkering up. Turrets and repair stations work greate. At this point you should be 2/4and have assailants, sentinels, skirmishers with restauration and trade stations available. The defences on every choke point should be 3/4 turets for 1 repair station. Now dont build turrets and units blindingly. Scout your enemy's army (sacrifice a navigator if you have to) and build units acordingly, asses the enemy army's strenght and only build defences when you think you need them.

Also getting the Korthul to level 6 is great, will mean the end of Javelins.

Once you get trade centers on all planets and defences on chokepoints go for the dark fleet. Many people said that the resorces needed for dark fleel make it not good for 1vs1, but that is not entirely true. Concidering the resource rates from 4 planets + tradeing post (can also add a rafinery if needed) you can gather the resources to build 8 research labs, all the research needed for dark fleer lvl2 and 5 phase gates, in 15 min. And thats alny because of cristal. Credits and metal are colected a lot faster, so if you use exces metal and credits to get cristals you should be ready in around 12 min, considering you already have 4 research labs build, the time goes down to 10 min.
Now the real time in witch you will get darc armade depends on how much resources you invest in your army and defences. So if you use 50% of income tecking to dark fleet. It should be done in 20 min - the real time will depend on how much defences your enemy forces you to make, usualy varies between 15 - 25 min. After dark fleet you preati muc know what to do.

From 5 gates when the research is ready you will get around this army:
3 skirmishers
12 assailants
9 enforcers
5 sentinels
5 transporter

The most importand parts of the strategy are :
- allways scout, se what army the enemy has and where it is
- use the costeffectiveness of defences to compensate for weaker units and smaler income
- allways adapt to the enemy dont just build the same army over and over.
- allways micro your units, vasri have less units with better hp so microing them is not so hard.


Reply #47 from Sins Forums Top
Hunting X...Hunting X...I knew a player once who rode horses, shot crossbows and hurled magic at the enemy that went by that name...

So, you're a space commander now...good enough for me! Appreciate the strat's you got here...guide me ObiWan! [email protected]

Reply #48 from Sins Forums Top
Hunting I disagree with most all of your statements, and I handle myself rather well. we need to play a game.
Reply #49 from Sins Forums Top
Hunting I disagree with most of your assertions, and I handle myself just fine. you and I need to play a game.
Reply #50 from Sins Forums Top
Sup Tevin :)

I think a lot of Kag players are doing this game now (Broken is doing his FFAs lol)

Is anyone else from HC coming?