Draginol Draginol

The changing world of skinning communities

The changing world of skinning communities

How does the community continue to thrive in a mainstream world?

Skinning first started getting popular around 1999. Back then, it was mostly about skinning Winamp and WindowBlinds.  Today, people expect to be able to customize virtually every aspect of their PC experience. From the moment someone boots to the time they shut down, everything a user sees they now anticipate the ability to personalize somehow if they choose to.

In the beginning, the content came from the community. The software itself was developed within the community as well. A given program would go through many beta iterations and technically savvy users would report problems they had, post their system info, and work with the developers to fix the problems. 

Because the community was essentially a partner in the production of the software, the software was relatively cheap. $10 to $20 was the typical price for any customization program. After all, if the user base was actively part of the development process and they were the ones providing the bulk of the content, how could anyone justify charging more than that?  And, as a practical matter, community participation drastically lowered the cost to develop skinning software which in turn opened the door to lots of freeware and shareware developers, working out of their houses, to create cool stuff.

When Windows XP came along in 2001, things began to change. Skinning became much more mainstream. The ratio between consumers of software/content to producers of software/content changed dramatically.  Once skinning went mainstream, users expectations began to change.  The number of people willing to create content dramatically decreased as a % of the user base.

In addition, the community that once would provide in-depth reports on bugs evolved into a community that increasingly would provide reports like "This is broke, it don't work on my computer. How could you release this buggy mess????" The same community that produced incredibly talented skinners increasingly became a community of consumers waiting for someone else to make things for them.

As the skinning community became more consumer-centric, the costs of providing software and content for that community increased. In many respects, the "community" of year year is long. Now it's a "market". Increasingly, unconsciously, even internally the word "market" has begun replacing the term "community".  The "skinning market" differs from the "skinning community" in that the former expects the software developers to do it all while the latter sees themselves as part of a team with the developers.

The net result is that most users simply want to buy a product and get really high quality content and not mess around with "community" content. Which, naturally, means that fewer people, as a % are willing to use the various editors and tools to create community content.

Similarly, today's users often become irate at the notion of running into bugs in software marked as betas. Very few users are willing to even try out betas and give feedback. Moreover, some people who do try out betas and do post expect that every issue they consider important will be quickly addressed and will stop contributing feedback if their particular issues aren't responded to in a timely way.

So what does this mean?

I predict we'll see the following trends:

  1. Content will begin to be provided as an additional optional service. For example, a user might buy WindowBlinds for $20 OR have the option to buy WindowBlinds Plus for $40 which includes a 1-year subscription to WinCustomize.com.
  2. WinCustomize.com subscriptions will continue to evolve to where content becomes increasingly the value-add users get.  Discounts on "Master Skins" and free content from Stardock Design will become the norm.
  3. Users who contribute help in testing betas, giving feedback, generating content, helping in the community will get free subscriptions.

That's the 3 thigns I think will happen in the future as the skinning world adapts to becoming mainstream. In my mind, that's the best way for skinning to grow while saving its own soul.

Hopefully, people aren't taking what I'm writing as "complaining".  What I am doing is making observations about how the skinning world is evolving over time. The mainstreaming of it is altering the perceived relationship between the people who make stuff and the people who use stuff. The unspoken social contract between the two was traditionally that we developers make our stuff cheap and in return the users make the content and help us track down problems in an open and symbiotic way.  But that relationship has changed to being more akin to a traditional producer/consumer relationship. Which is fine if that's what the...market has chosen.

66,798 views 78 replies
Reply #51 Top
This is great. Like I said, some of the tutorials have been a help. But we need a full and complete one, in one place, from start to finish from the designers of the software. Why should it fall on the folks trying to figure it out?
End of quote


Documentation and tutorials can be two separate things.  We have a full step-by-step SkinStudio 6 tutorial in the works for users soon.

However, it would be great benefit to the community as a whole if people write about their specialities, or the tricks they use to obtain certain things.  I mean for instance, someone J.Aroche writing a tutorial about CursorFX tricks, things like that.


Reply #52 Top
Bear with me Po' for a couple of days - I'll commit here & now to creating a thread that appeals to those who want to skin, but have lacked that final push.

Reply #53 Top
Well I understand your point, I guess different people learn differently. If I have no reference material, I roll my sleeves up, dig in , bite down and dont let go until I figure it out. Pit bull mentality I suppose. I am still learning WB but to learn enough to finish a skin can be done in a couple of weeks I believe If one sets their mind to it.

I'm no outdoorsman but lost in a forest.. I'd find a way to eat.

I think there is a huge misconception about how hard WB is to skin. People should realize that their first skin isnt' going to be a masterpiece.

Photoshop is far more complicated.. I'd say the reason most people don't skin isnt the fear of putting a skin together but a lack of graphic design knowledge.

One other thing to know.. which you mentioned is.. your going to go back to square one.. again and again.. its part of the process. It can't be avoided.. even with step by step help. I did it many a time.

Most valuable thing in making a WB is patience. Imo.
Reply #54 Top
One other thing to know.. which you mentioned is.. your going to go back to square one.. again and again.. its part of the process. It can't be avoided.. even with step by step help. I did it many a time.
End of quote


What can be avoided is the inabibilty for some one to not be able to get past step 2 or 3. Whats easy for you is not easy for everyone. No mater how much effort they applied. For some people, some things require more explanation and instruction.

No matter how you try, you can't get a square peg into a round hole (short of altering one or the other) and when you constantly get stuck building a blind, that's what it feels like. That feeling is only compounded by the lack of resources to explain how to do it. Eventually, a lot of people just give up.

As far as photoshop, hell, if I knew what I was making and how I had to make it for a windowblind, I would be more than happy to load the graphics gallery with stuff for folks to work from and assemble themselves if they wanted. It would be awesome to have a thread similar to the 'Rare Icon Request' where folks could request parts for a blind or a taskbar or start window with their picture in it, or whatever. I have a template for a start window. I wanted to use it for my 'Shut Up And Kiss Me' blind (another blind I got stuck on). It was mirrors. In the main one, I wanted to enclose an extra file. A template that anyone could use to put a picture of their sweetheart on and then copy and paste it into the blinds folder, replacing the original so they could have their sweethearts pic in their start window. But because I can't even make a simple rectangular start window that looks they way it's supposed to, I'm stuck. And I think it would have been a pretty cool skin, if I do say so myself. Very personalized to each individual.

I can't be the only one who gets or is stuck like this. And I wouldn't be the first or last to give up and never bother again because I can't find the resources I need to get through it.
Reply #55 Top
If you like, feel free to add me on MSN if you use it, I'm not opposed to helping someone who truly want's to learn.  :) 
Reply #56 Top
If you like feel free to add me on MSN if you use it, I'm not opposed to helping someone who truly want's to learn.
End of quote


How about accepting my invitation to join me and anyone else who joins in on building the Birthday Suite. I have started a thread and posted the first graphics in the Gallery thread. The taskbar is odd and can use the guidance of a Master (and anyone who wants to help) I don't even know yet that the images will work. IT's going to be s step by step thread and hopefully myself and others will benefit.

The main concept is that 'we' build it without having someone else do it for us. You could explain and critique and most importantly, tell me where I am going wrong.

Thread... WWW Link

Graphics Part One - WWW Link

Avman is on board, but I extend the invitation to anyone who wants to try and build it or wants to play instructor. Perhaps we could set up times for all or any when available to get on messenger or even do it in IRC.

vStyler, PM me. Tell me when is good time for you in the evening to get on messenger or IRC (which you prefer). We can work it out and I will post it in the thread as an invite. We can work out the details in PM or IM.
Reply #57 Top
Well I understand your point, I guess different people learn differently. If I have no reference material, I roll my sleeves up, dig in , bite down and dont let go until I figure it out. Pit bull mentality I suppose. I am still learning WB but to learn enough to finish a skin can be done in a couple of weeks I believe If one sets their mind to it.

I'm no outdoorsman but lost in a forest.. I'd find a way to eat.

I think there is a huge misconception about how hard WB is to skin. People should realize that their first skin isnt' going to be a masterpiece.

Photoshop is far more complicated.. I'd say the reason most people don't skin isnt the fear of putting a skin together but a lack of graphic design knowledge.

One other thing to know.. which you mentioned is.. your going to go back to square one.. again and again.. its part of the process. It can't be avoided.. even with step by step help. I did it many a time.
End of quote


Ditto...must be a Capricorn (the stubborn goat) thing. :-)
Reply #58 Top
...must be a Capricorn
End of quote


Jan 13  ;) 
Reply #59 Top
Theres not THAT much to it. I wonder why people seem to think its so difficult.. I can't skin ANYthing else really. Its one of the few things u dont need to know ANY code to skin.
End of quote



Why doesn't someone do a Poll and ask "Why aren't you skinning?" "What would you like to know how to skin?" "What is holding you back from skinning?"
End of quote



"Why aren't you skinning?"

"What is holding you back from skinning?"

The very first thing that you (We) need to know is, Adobe Photoshop. Need to know how to make the image before I could even begin to make a Windowblind skin.

And no, please don't give me a link to a Tutorial even though they say this is for beginners to advanced user.

But then when you start reading it states (this Tutorial assumes you have some knowledge. Well then it’s not for beginners then.

Or some Tutorials will say this is a step-by-step Tutorial sure it is, only if you all ready know what to do when they skip a step

Reply #60 Top
I never have understood why people assume that there have to be tutorials available to learn something. Open PS, Open SKS... start clicking.. sooner or later.. IF u stick to it.. you will learn..I swear.

It's how I did it, I may have looked at 3-4 tutorials in 8 years.. It takes time, effort and patience. In fact most the time tutorials can confuse more than inform, they tend to take simple things and make them look harder than they are.

Trial and error is what its all about....going back to square one..over and over...at least to gain basic knowledge.. THEN start looking for more specific tutorials.

When you have ripped the little hair you have left out.. try posting here, someone will help.

Im the biggest idiot on the planet and I figured it out all by my lonesome.

Cmon y'all !!
Reply #61 Top
Im the biggest idiot on the planet and I figured it out all by my lonesome.
End of quote


at least the second biggest ;)

I've read exactly zero tutorials on photoshop. And I somehow figured out some of it :)

Reply #62 Top
"
I never have understood why people assume that there have to be tutorials available to learn something. Open PS, Open SKS... start clicking.. sooner or later.. IF u stick to it.. you will learn..I swear.
End of quote
In fact most the time tutorials can confuse more than inform, they tend to take simple things and make them look harder than they are. Trial and error is what its all about....going back to square one..over and over...at least to gain basic knowledge..
End of quote
" Very Very True! For any program. I used to use only PSP9 and not very much. I went to find a tutorial just to make a ball with all those neat little effects to make it look realistic. Found a tutorial and spent a few hours one day going back and forth through it making a bunch of the same one in the same color. Boy was i kicking myself when first i discovered on my own a way to give these balls just as realistic a look in about 2 steps(compared to 15 in the tutorial). Kicked myself even harder when i realized how much easier it is to change the colors using the hue/saturation settings rather than making the same thing over in different colors from scratch X-( :d Just a few days ago I decided to try my hand (yet again) at Photoshop CS2, which Ive had for awhile but never use because I was just to stubborn to get used to the differences between it and PSP9. And again I foolishly went hunting for tutorials on certain things. Tried one and completely didnt come out right. Spent an hour messing with things in Photoshop and figured out how to do exactly what I wanted. :CONGRAT: Trial and error sometimes takes alot less time than searching the net to learn from someone else. And as vStyler said :
When you have ripped the little hair you have left out.. try posting here, someone will help.
End of quote
When I first came here a few months ago, there were a couple things I had questions about and had no problems finding people here who knew what they were doing and were more than willing to help out.
Reply #63 Top
Okay. You can thank the forum changes for the bad format of my previous post.  :NOTSURE: 
Reply #64 Top
Isn't the point to enjoy what you're doing while learning, and to be able to communicate that in your work and the way you talk about your art?
Reply #65 Top
Trial and error is what its all about....going back to square one..over and over
End of quote


I agree...make it, break it, crash it, trash it, create and eliminate then start all over again. If you poke around some programs enough, you may find alot of things they're capable of that's not even covered in a tutorial. :-)

(Vstyler) Jan. 9th here... :-)
Reply #66 Top

I agree...make it, break it, crash it, trash it, create and eliminate then start all over again.
End of quote

Yep, that's how it's done...;)

Reply #67 Top
I'M A NEWBIE! I'm not sure I should even be posting here among a lot of the communities heavy weights, but I've read things here that I think are issues that many of the experienced and long time users have forgetten. Beginners aren't IDIOTS although we may be ignorant. Yes the market is changing, and with that change are more and more raw beginners wanting these products, and they are where the money will come from. I consider myself to be a moderately experienced computer USER. I'm not a programmer, nor do I or have I used a computer during my work life. I am just a retired guy who would like to enhance the visual look of my system and just possibly, someday learn how to do some of the wonderful work that a lot of you are doing. Here is part of my beginning experience with Stardock and WC. I first bought WindowBlinds after learning to hate a similar product. I didn't even know about Object Desktop or the other Stardock products. Just a couple of days later I found out about all of the products available and bought OD, then CursorXP Plus, then ObjectDock, then subscribed to WC. When I bought CursorXP I got a free version of CursorFX Plus...great deal. I had no idea through all of this that I should have installed Stardock Central and installed everything else from there. Now I have had many problems with updating. What I'm trying to say with all of this is that new potential buyers should at least be informed on the product pages as to how they should be installed. New buyers don't usually know to go look at the Wiki or dig for articles just to install a new software. "Knowledge is power" and without more initial information to new users, they are going to get frustrated and possibly quit using the products. I am really learning to love most of these programs and wish Stardock all the best as well as this great community. By the way, sorry if I spell like Zubaz. Ed
Reply #68 Top
By the way, sorry if I spell like Zubaz.
End of quote
Hey!!!!   :(


Wait . . he's right.   :SNIFF!: 
Reply #69 Top
I think that there have always been more skins users than skinners. I'm one of the skins users. Since WB 1.0.

I enjoy the ability to change the look/feel of Windows on the screen. I enjoy using good
skins from competent skinners to match my mood, the season, or to bring something about a particular app to the fore (color contrast, shape of frame or buttons).

But I seem not to be a very good skinner. I've tried, but lack the talent or the skill to get a skin that holds up against the ones from really good skinners.

I'm happy to support the skinning world as I can, but I hope that skinning apps and skins don't get too expensive to acquire.

:CONGRAT:
Reply #71 Top
I'm not sure I should even be posting here among a lot of the communities heavy weights,
End of quote


You and other newbies are the ones who really need to chime in. Especially when it is intelligent and thought out, like your post, and not just griping.

Welcome to the community, angus. ;)
Reply #72 Top

'M A NEWBIE! I'm not sure I should even be posting here among a lot of the communities heavy weights,
End of quote

There are no 'heavyweights' [just old, fat people]...;)

Actually, everyone's input is valued and particularly that of the 'newbie' in a subject/thread such as this one....;)

Reply #73 Top
Thanks a lot Po', that means a lot. And Jafo, I R one of those old fat people.
Reply #74 Top
I agree...make it, break it, crash it, trash it, create and eliminate then start all over again.
End of quote


This is how I and and many others got started.



I'm not sure I should even be posting here among a lot of the communities heavy weights,
End of quote


The Beginners Input is as valuable as the old hands. For Skinning to perpetuate and keep on, we need the new skinners as well as the elders to work together. "We" are a community and any good valid point is more than welcome :)
Reply #75 Top
I R one of those old fat people.
End of quote


Oh, Brainiac is gonna love that  :LOL: Well, if the shoe fits  ;p