Are vasari overpowered in large games?

In large maps I use the Vasari for that reason

Interesting question.

Actually we had a huge discussion in the beta that the Vasari was underpowered :p but they are not. They are equals to the other races.

The Vasari uses alot more fleet point then any other race, so they cant have as many ships as the TEC or Advent which makes up for the phase gate technology

To a point. But thats a fixed value designed to balance against a variable.

Any advantage the other two races gain in being able to have 'more ships' will slowly disappear the larger a map gets, and the vasaris jump advantage will more or less stay the same.

But in a final confrontation they have the advantage, seeing as they don't have a game-ending game-ender, they have to fight, and when they do their army has to be the strongest, because it will be the smallest.

i use them cos they look so dam cool plus they have a cap ship that looks a bit like a vulcan cruiser

But with a much greater expansion potential they can afford to lose ships quickly, they can just keep pumping them out of 30 different factories and sending them to the nearest planet to the confrontation.


'final confrontations' usually happen when the game has already been decided. A stronger fleet on the losing side will do nothing but perhaps make the battle last a minute longer.\

Note im not trying to get the vasari nerfed or anything. This is actualy a back door attack on fixed fleet caps=p (i think based on planets you own was a good idea)

But think about it this way. It was a 3 way, the third player died. Now it's you and him. You're Vasari and he's Advent. You have the ship advantage but he has combos. Therefor you might want to duke it out. You're using your tricks and he's using his. The issue is he has more combo ships than you have your ships, his air is better ect. You have to focus on Phase Missiles, shield disruptor thingies and phasing them out. Both of you are about equal. But he has more units to spare. He bring 10 Cap ships around the side while you're using your psychic dude and your heavy guy ect to soak the damage. You see them coming, if you go for them his army will break the line. If you don't you're boned. The only answer is to back up your lines so your supply gets to the front line faster, the question, will he fall for it?

Do the Vasari field a smaller army? It was my understanding that their units tend to be more expensive but tougher, so a smaller army costs the same and is equal in battle to, a larger force.

Dont forget returning armada, I have not used it myself but was allied with someone who did and his force was massive and only kept growing, for free once you get it all up.

That sounds like a small game. I mean LARGE games with multiple fronts. You cant have just one fleet, you need to be able to defend against attacks. Vasari can more or less make just one defense fleet and send them wherever they need to be. In the same situation the other races may need to have 3+ defense fleets for their own local area.

If the vasari can direct half their total fleet against any point in your empire, you are not going to be able to do anything about it. If you have smaller regional fleets for defense the vasari fleet will overwhelm, if you have a single large fleet by the time it gets there the planet is already lost.

Im talking 60+ planet maps. Or to emphasize the point even more, Think 100+ planet maps=P

If you go with a model that has lots and lots of stars as well with many planets and stuff, even using vasari jumping you will still need multiple defensive vasari fleets, this is true, however the other races will need even MORE. To the point that they cant even feasibly defend a territory past X size, where the vasari will easily be able to and even larger.

Im sure its balanced fairly well for small or medium sized maps. Im talking large ones=p

Oh, well in that case it's still slightly balanced by the fact that while they have to use less units, they still have to break up into 2-3 fleets on huge maps, and since their armies are smaller this means that an organized attack can send you reeling.

Also, the other factions will just grab 15-20 planets probably, and then try to take yours out.

Phase gates are useful, but only within the same system. If you want to invade another system, or are defending yours, you're in the same spot as everyone else.

Not to mention that a phase gate costs 10 tactical points, which severely hampers the static defenses, and makes it pretty easy to just destroy the phase gate so the enemy can't reinforce it.. no?

They can only move around like that as long as both ends are connected by the gates. In addition to it still taking a while to travel even in a direct line, an attacking fleet can easily be done with all the static defenses (and the phase gate) before the defending fleet arrives.

So, in my view, this argument has no merit.

Yeah. I play them exclusively and currently I think they are still a little under the gun unless the caps are are level 10 and the missile tech is maxed out.

I don't think I've been playing even nearly long enough to really comment on what the races are good/bad at (Have only used TEC so far).

But. Someone above said that the Vassari can only make one defence fleet whilst the other races might need 3 or 4 in larger games to cover multiple fronts and this is an advantage to the Vassari.

It seems to me just from reading that there comes bundled with this possibility a hidden dissadvantage if a Vassari player chooses to play this way, for example.

A Vassari player is only using one defence fleet and is jumping it around in order to defend multiple fronts in his local area. The other player has 3 defence fleets covering his areas. The other player now decides to take one of his defence fleets and attack a front with it (I assume the defence fleet would be a smaller force) and the Vassari player phase jumps his defence fleet into that front to defend. Once this battle is going nicely the other player focuses on his main attack fleet and moves in to attack another front.

The Vassari player is faced with:

1. Splitting his fleet, ending up with 2x weak fleets and loosing 2x planets.
2. Phase jumping to the new threat, loosing the planet on the first front.
3. Staying and finishing off the first fleet that attacked it, loosing the planet on the second front.

Note also that in the second example, the Vassari fleet has already been fighting the first attack fleet which is smaller than the second, has lost a good few ships and is already weekened. It probably wont have the strength to face the 2nd larger attack fleet which is already bigger than the first anyway, so there is a possible loss of two planets there also.

Again I have only been playing a few hours so far and only with TEC so appologies if there are game mechanics/Vassari abilities which would prevent this but that is how I would play it if a Vassari player was doing that to me.

I think you got it messed up. Vassari can have several defense fleets, just not as many as the other two factions. If they could only have 100-125 ships they would probably be massively UP, given that many people have nearly 100 frigates/cruisers alone

So they would take into account that that attack force was smaller, and send a small fleet of, I dunno, a cap ship and a ton of frigates, while the bigger force goes for the other attack. Take into account that 3 even forces of 200 units is less than 70 units, you say it isn't even. So when the weak defense force kills the weak attackers (if this happens) then it will go to aid the strong defense force and pwnzor the attackers.

The question is, would a late-game Vasari game be a massive stalemates with clashes of half their force at a time happening every 20 minutes?

I played an advent game against Vassari. The enemy having extreme mobilization was a hinderance, but not so much as the fact that my shields were totally worthless. I'd had 2000 shields yet no hull. Given that Advent specialize in shields, the Vassari's ability to ignore shields seems amazingly overpowered.

I loved Advent but I have given up on them for this reason. I now play TEC and Vassari.

That's why you use lots of cruisers, and use lv6 super beam.

The Advent's Iconus Guardian cruisers have shield projection powers which can screw normal weapons, but they won't work against Vasari Phase Missiles - the Phase Missiles will just pierce through the many layers of shielding and blast the hull of their target with the Guardians being helpless to do anything about it.

The Radiance Battleship's Level 6 "Cleansing Brilliance" super-beam could possibly kill many Vasari LRM frigates if successful, but if the Vasari player micromanages and pulls the LRMs out of range using their superior speed, the special attack is just a waste of antimatter. Or better, if the Vasari use their mobility to knock out the Advent antimatter stations, the Advent fleet will be cut off from their fuel lines and subject to operating without their special abilities(Big Problem).

Would these "Big Problems" Be not dealing out 33% of damage taken, dragging attacks to the strong guy, re-enforcing shields ect?

And I meant cruisers as because Advent have the strongest fighters/bombers.