Are Christian Children Bullies?

Persecution from the Bible-Toters

from JoeUser Forums
Both of my boys have the same religious instruction. From infancy to about 7 years old my oldest son was immersed in religious instruction. We did Sunday School (most of the time, I even taught the class), we did VBS, we did fellowship dinners, and we did reinforcement at home with Bible stories and coloring books and "teachable moments". The same went for my younger son, only we stopped when he was around 4 years old.

My oldest child is an agnostic. My middle child is a believer.

Tonight Xavier was at Cub Scouts and one of his Christian friends decided to quiz him and a couple other children on Bible trivia. Xavier did poorly and when the children accosted him he told them he did not believe in God.

His "friend" wasted no time in telling him he was going to hell. He was then lectured on hell, which his Christian friends had determined to be his destination in the afterlife. He told his "friend" that he did not believe in Hell. His friend then began praying loudly for Xavier to know God and the Devil.

Xavier was a little put off by this, but I told him I was proud of him for standing up for his beliefs (or lackthereof) and for not being hateful about it. He was a little bothered by the prayer but I reminded him that it does not hurt him for people to pray for him so he shouldn't worry about it.

This is not the first time he has experienced persecution from his Christian chums.

Last year he stepped on a cockroach on the playground and another child told him he "killed God". Xavier told the child that he did not believe in God, and the child condemned him to hell on the spot. Further he told on Xavier and Xavier was chastized by the teacher on duty on the playground.

There have been other instances of this as well. It makes me wonder what Christian families are teaching their children. This is certainly not the appropriate way for a child to express care for a friend or an appropriate way for him to conduct outreach.

Ridiculing, condemning, and damning to eternal Hell a playmate who has not "found God" is hopefully not the type of thing Christian children are being taught in their homes and their churches.

Orian piped up, during our discussion of what went on during Cub Scouts, that he prays all the time and what he prays for comes true.

I think that's really sweet and I would never crush his belief.
I refuse to force Xavier to take on the yoke of something that he feels no connection with, though. I don't think his lack of belief makes him any less of a good kid, a good student, a good friend, or a good Scout. So long as he respects the beliefs of others, his thoughts on God or eternity or any other spiritual matter should be of no concern to anyone else.

It is taboo for a child not to believe in God, but in America, it is his right.
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8,018 views 31 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Thomas was always my favorite disciple because he thought for and had to see for himself.

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
What. The. Hell.

I can't believe that children are taught to behave like that. At Xavier's (Cub Scouts) age, these kids are just aping what they've seen their parents do.

Who are they to condemn ANYONE to Hell? Man, I do not like mainstream Christianity.

But hey, they say I'm going to Hell too. If I had a dime every time someone said a prayer like that for me, I'd have enough for a nice steak dinner.

And I'd prefer the dimes over the prayers.
Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Concepts of things like deities are tough enough for adults. A friend of mine said he considered it to be near to child abuse to try to force feed a particular belief system on one so young. There's clearly a right way and a wrong way to describe a belief system to kids. I'd challenge that threatening them with eternal damnation is probably not the right way.

In the instances you cited, the fear on the parts of the children condemning your child to hell is pretty evident (to me at least), and they didn't just make it up for themselves. Someone, somewhere, threatened them, and then rationalized it.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

Well, I teach MY kids to shout, "GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN!"  when another kid says he doesn't believe in God.  Then they pull out a monster cross I make them wear around their necks, and back slowly away from the evilness of the child.

buwhahahahahaha.

Seriously, though I think kids tend to focus on the more "fairy tale/sensational" aspects of their belief.  After all they are kids..heh.  And what can be more sensational than heaven and hell?  Christians are taught we are the winning team, all others are the losing team.  There is no middle ground, black and white, heaven and hell, winners and losers.  Some kids feel the need to "talk smack"  and let the others know from the get go they are on the losing team.  I think part of it may be the way boys are so competitive?  I'm not sure.

If I were you, I'd help my oldest come up with a snappy come back.  Heh.  I can't think of one right now...at least not one you'd actually want a child to say.

If all else fails you can talk to the parents.  Though you may get the same type thing.  Better think of a snappy come back just in case.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Snappy comeback? Naw, be the better person here. Nothing hurts the self-righteous like the qualities of Jesus being modeled better in a non-Christian than in themselves... and what the heck is with the cockroach thing? Did you kid get punished for killing a cockroach, a pest, or God? "Now now, don't kill God or else there won't be anyone to let us into heaven and send you to hell."
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
he "killed God".


Well, now he doesn't have to worry about believing...he already killed God who was in cockroach form at the time...sucks to be God, I guess.


Seriously, though...that's messed up. What are these people teaching their kids that they'd tell other people they're going to hell on the spot? Must be Catholics or something...

~Zoo
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Could be Baptists, according to Gid.

They're probably teaching their kids that people who don't believe in Jesus go to hell.

"If you don't believe in God, you'll go to hell."

"I don't believe in hell, either."

"Well, let me tell you all about it, so you'll HAVE to believe in it."

"... still don't believe in it."

"Okay, I'll say it louder."

"Please don't."

"Okay, I'll just pray for you really loudly so that everyone can see that you're different and someone will DO SOMETHING about it."

That would put me off too.

But I'm guessing that's not too far away from the thought process there. If you're a kid, you have a limited amount of information and tools to bring someone to your point of view. And they really don't make sense.

Evangelical training is not in the curriculum of some Sunday schools, but the kids are encouraged to go out and evangelize anyway. I'm sure there are some kids who 'get it' and some who don't. I know I didn't understand what Jesus did for me, or really meant, until I was 18. I grew up in a church, went to Sunday school, and yet I didn't get it. But I would still argue about it, and basically act like that kid did. Not often, because it wasn't really a big part of my life, but when it did come up, I would talk about it. But my parents were never like that, my Sunday school teachers weren't like that - I did it on my own. Got in trouble for it, too. After that it stopped.

But, seriously, those kids might not even be 'saved' even if they know about God and Hell.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
As a Christian, I can only say I'm sorry, Tex. I am quite embarrassed by the people of my faith at the moment.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
I went to Catholic school and we had at least a handful of students who weren't Catholic, and I don't ever remember anyone so much as teasing them about it, let alone being so atrocious. I do remember that we all thought that we were better than the public school kids. We used to take home all of our stuff on the nights that the public school kids came in for catechism because we thought that they would steal it (which actually did happen a few times, so I guess that wasn't entirely unfounded).

It's been my experience that Protestants are far more likely to be 'in your face' about religion than the Catholics that I know. The Catholics I know want their children to only date other Catholics, etc, but I've never seen them try to convert someone on the spot or tell someone that they're going to Hell.

On the whole, though, at least 99% of the Christians who I've encountered, either Catholic or Protestant, are at least polite to your face. It's that small percentage that ruins it for the rest of us and make us look like a bunch of raving maniacs.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
WE need to sit down with our kids and tell them that some kids don't always know what they're talking about and we have to make up our minds. Children are far too young to understand the complications of Christianity. Teach your kids to follow your values and...if it's a niggle, get on the phone to the other Mom.

A Christian Kid is not a Christian kid. He's following a good or a poor example from Mom or Dad. Many parents are naive and don't know the difference between real Christianity and a sense of belonging to a club. It is not a club and some parents need to know that. The warped assumption that Christian kids are better than anyone else--influenced by the parent--is harming the bully as well as the receiver.

I say this very strongly to parents: Guide your children in the correct way so that they realise we are all equal. They can question Christian ethics and philosophy later in life. For now they need to know that friendship is important, bragging is not. That syndrome of "We have a pool, you don't" is similar to parent brainwashing. Some parents are just like kids themselves and have no idea how to balance morals, ethics or standards. Grow up a little you rich adults and teach your kids some values!
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

Well, I teach MY kids to shout, "GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN!" when another kid says he doesn't believe in God. Then they pull out a monster cross I make them wear around their necks, and back slowly away from the evilness of the child.

That cracked me up, Tova.  If you were Catholic you would add the sprinkling with Holy Water while the demon child writhed on the floor ~"it burns, it burns".

Tex, I would be upset.  I think Xavier seems like he is strong enough to not buckle to pressure at.  I would consider buying him a Tshirt that says "Jesus save me from your followers". 

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top

Ridiculing, condemning, and damning to eternal Hell a playmate who has not "found God" is hopefully not the type of thing Christian children are being taught in their homes and their churches.

Well, you have run into some adult "Christians" who act the same way on here, so you could only assume that their offspring would be equally offensive.

And, yes, as an American, it's your little guy's right to be whatever religion he chooses, even if he needs to make up one to fit his needs.

Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Xavier, bless his little cotton socks, may just have discovered one of the keys that unlocks the universe.

There's prayer, which is whining supplication; and there's invocation, which is an expression of the will. Whatever you will, if you truly will it and have no concern for it (if you are without that 'lust for results' which can be the Magickian's greatest stumbling block) will occur.

Every time. Without fail.

Perhaps Xavier isn't praying (which is a very good thing, since prayer is contemptible). Perhaps he's invoking.

As for the Christians... why don't you suggest to him that he remind them that with the measure they use so will it be measured out to them in their turn, and that it's they who stand in danger of hell. Personally I'd tell him to kick their asses. After all, they'd be suffering for their faith and, as every Christian knows, suffering is good for you.

Jesus the Lamb of God... very tasty, when cooked right, and with some nice mint jelly on the side.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
You know that those kids learn their behaviour from their parents?! And that it is possible that their parents behave the same way?! That is sad that the parents cannot be objective enough to realise that they should not brainwash their children in that manner. There's such a thing as too much information, even about God when it comes to children. It is your son's right to believe in whatever he chooses and it's great he knows that!
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's also possible that a single parent behaves that way, the parent of the leader, and now the others are his little flock of followers...
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

Objectivity is not something the radically religious are generally capable of.  For them, behaving poorly towards "non-believers" is a right, just and holy act, and something they would want their children to emulate.  I would bet that the parents of the kid in question who went after Xavier would praise their child for doing the right thing... fighting God's fight.

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
There's this completely wrong theory out there that the more 'Christian' someone is, the worse they behave towards non-believers. It's completely false, based on the definition of a Christian. The more Christian someone is, the more love they show for EVERYBODY. The people behaving poorly are the ones who are the least Christian.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Last year he stepped on a cockroach on the playground and another child told him he "killed God".


S'okay cause there are about 50 million 'gods' living under my house who regularly raid my kitchen. I can put one in a matchbox and mail it to you, if you'd like 'god' back in your life. Or Xavier could take it to school and tell his friend he knows heaven on Earth because a friend of Mommy's sent him 'god' from Australia   
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yikes! Ditto on what Gid said. There isn't much more to say I guess. Except that I will do everything in my power to not raise kids like those.
Poor Xavier, and brave kid!

I have no idea about the cockroach thing. I'm not sure that was a Christian...or maybe he misinterpreted something.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
There's more to this. While Madeline Murray O'Hare was not by most accounts a generally fun person to be around, it was after her own children were persecuted in a similar fashion, only by the teachers, that she began her campaign to end prayer in schools. Had the students and faculty at her childrens' school simply shown a little tolerance, that is a battle that might never have been fought.

Oh, but don't teach Christians to "Love one another". Most HATE that message. I've found that out firsthand.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Not that I'm defending these other children's actions by any means, but some kids have a very cut and dried sense of their faith. Either you do or you don't, and if you do, you go to heaven, and if you don't you go to hell. I don't think that kids can understand the larger, intricate concepts of the Christian faith. Heck, I'm coming up on thirty and I know that I don't understand just the tip if it all, you know?

That being said, I think that it says alot about you as a parent how Xavier reacted to these other kids, and I think it's neat that you encourage your kids to explore these issues and make their own choices.

I don't know, B. I'm not a mom. This is some sticky stuff. I think the best you can do is teach your kids to take the high road like you're doing.

Lots of people who claim to be CHristian think they get to be Christian only when they want to, and that the principles only apply to them when its convenient. And that gets passed on to their kids, too. I pray that God gives me the strength and the courage to be a full-time Christian and the understanding to teach my kids that the way to treat other people is with kindness, no matter what they believe.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Not that I'm defending these other children's actions by any means, but some kids have a very cut and dried sense of their faith. Either you do or you don't, and if you do, you go to heaven, and if you don't you go to hell. I don't think that kids can understand the larger, intricate concepts of the Christian faith.


For lots of Christians there aren't any, and frankly I'd say that those who do believe in these convenient swathes of grey probably aren't very good Christians.

I went to Catholic schools and my experience was that no one ever trusted or particularly liked the god squads. They were too earnest, too ugly, too self-involved to be good friends and they hid all the faults that make people interesting. When you do manage to uncover said faults they generally turned out to be shockingly horrific and more than a little sexually deranged (eg the possibly mythical Mormon sex clothes to prevent unnecessary immodesty, or loving jesus just a little too much).

Obsessive belief in anything is unhealthy and fundamentally self-destructive, but that seems to be what the true believers in Christianity demand.

If I was you Tex I'd probably tell my kids to run with it. So the others reckon Xavier's going to hell? Capitalise on it then! Step on all the cockroaches and then, when they say 'you killed God' then tell them that he's their god now cos he killed the old one, so they can worship him instead. Probably won't work but then again they probably won't pick on him again, so all's well that ends well.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top

Anything that makes one kid feel superior to others can be used by bullies.  It says a lot more about the bully than it says about their weapon of choice.

I'm glad to hear you raise your kids the way you see fit.  That's how we should all be.

Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yea this is more human nature than bad parenting. If you through one toy between two toddlers, you’ll soon have one crying toddler, life teaches this very early on and even the best parent is not going to be able to unlearn this in their child.

If you teach a child the concept of heaven and hell, it will be used in their struggle to come out on top in social situations no matter how much you tell them were all equal.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: stubbyfinger


Cookie for you!

It's highly possible that these children were just trying to establish pecking order. I have my own tiny three person experiment going on in my home lately. Now that they can all move around a bit no pacifier is safely rooted in a mouth and no toy in a hand.

I think it's really cool that you let them have their own experience now Tex. I think it will save some time later in life where most folks tend to question the things that they have always believed.

Now in keeping with my recent tradition and my absolute avoidance of making a life with triplets now the 8.5 month addition blog...

Here's a photo of them in their costumes!