MTV Music Awards, what a train wreck!

Wait, at least she didn't french kiss anyone, male or female on stage!

That's the most entertaining thing she's capable of.

Justin Timberlake's performance was also pretty good. I really enjoyed the dancing! He deserves every penny he earns!

Well it's refreshing that his dancing earned points at the MUSIC awards. Justin Timberlake couldn't play "Come to Jesus" in whole notes. He, like many sports figures, don't produce for the world a 1/100th of what they earn. If you are entertained by him, that's great. But don't put a subjective price on his worth. To me, he's worth...wait a sec...let me get my calculator out again. Oh yes...here it is. Zero. Just another fevered ego convincing the masses that he knows anything about music and HIDING, just like you seemed to understood in your last post, behind the same kind of rationalizations. "Well who are you to judge what is good? Just don't listen if you don't like it. Just hit the BACK button"

(Ok, am I now falling into the group you chastised in your last article? Well that's why I say subjectivism is evil - see I HAVE a degree in music. And like it or not, Timberlake is NOT a musician - he's an entertainer. This guy advocates music education throughout the country, and he can't play!! Maybe he wishes he had some. You've basically just done the equivalent of saying that a guy that swallows multiple colors of paint and then pukes it up on canvas is a great painter - particularly if he wiggles his ass just right in the process. (This is the MUSIC awards, isn't it? Not the DANCE awards?) I already know the answer to that. It's the latter. That's fine. To MTV - Just stop calling it "music awards." Without their producers and marketting agents, these people would be worth...*looks at calculator again*...oh...you remember the answer, don't you?

Sorry. Pet peeve. I can play circles around Timberlake while I'm in a coma. I have musical knowledge in my brain he can't possibly comprehend, and I have ethics that disallow me from preying on people that don't understand and taking their money while pretending to be something I am not. The fact that you say he's worth every penny he's paid is an affront to all real musicians everywhere. I know many starving musicians that are better than me, and therefore better than him. Sadly neither they or I can *dance* to the satisfaction of supposed MUSIC lovers. He's a whore, and you're buying him. And don't get me wrong, it isn't just Timberlake - it's 97% of mainstream musicians. It's no longer about who can play - it's about who can dance. WTF?

See, and this is why I drive home the point that I am not a musician, but a folklorist. If it weren't for tablature, I'd be hard pressed to play at a level even remotely resembling competence. And I know that, and have great respect for those who DO have the ability I lack.

But folk music is another art form altogether.

Damn, Ock.

I think Justin Timberlake is a great ENTERTAINER/musician/dancer/whatever. Lots of people do.

Do you have to music snob all over everything?

FS: I didn't see the VMAs, but I watched MTV's clip of Britney's performance. It was terrible. Her hair looked gross, she moved around like she was on tranquilizers or something, and the lip-syncing was totally off.

She is NOT fat. She has had 2 kids in 2 years and she looks great considering. But compared to the vicious Brit bod we're used to, it was a little disappointing.

And the sexier part of the routine near the end almost worked except she seemed so bored and uncoordinated.

Poor girl.

Haha, you guys take yourselves waaaaay too seriously!

And I do feel sorry for Britney in a "how sad" sort of way.

PMS much?

Well, this is a good followup to your last one FS, and Ock jumped at it.  As I cant hold a note in a bucket, I will let the pros say who is and who is not a muscian.  I just say I dont care for Brittney or Justin.

Give me Morrison and Santana.

The masses don't want music, they want entertainment. There is no room for an unentertaining musician. If the musicianship is entertaining in and of itself, that's great - otherwise, you have to add something to it. And then you have the real entertainers, the ones who only have music so they can dance to it...

Nothing wrong with them. But they're no musicians.

It's akin to one of the masses walking up to a game of Imperial or Diplomacy and saying, "Hey, is that a new version of Risk?" "Yeah, it's just like Risk, there's a board and people are playing it."

Same with music and entertainers... if you're not one, you'll get confused between the two.

Do you have to music snob all over everything?

I dunno, Texas. If you ever need to have an organ removed, let ME do it. Unless you're a doctor snob.

PMS much?

Aw cmon, TW. That was beneath the you I've come to know and love. Mari feels strongly, as do I, that there are a lot of really talented people that would love to add to culture in the way that Michelangelo and da Vinci did, but they can't because some guy with a crayola crayon has a better marketting agent. There's no need to stoop to the effective calling of names. Are you projecting?

Projecting what?

And if you think being a snot is beneath me, you don't know me very well.

Haha, and do you really think you can compare medicine to music? LMAO. I understand it's you guys' passion and life's work and all, but dayum. Y'all are just INSANE about it.

I'm sorry. I bow before you guys' intelligence. I am a slack-jawed, drooling moron and I will avoid making any comments about music or ENTERTAINMENT or Britney Spears or medicine ever again as I obviously am not smart enough to be entitled to an opinion.

I still think better of her and figure I just don't understand, or she doesn't, or we both (she and I) don't.

I'm sure I DON'T understand but I don't think it's an insult to "real" musicians for someone to want to bring sexy back while they're washing dishes or for someone to think it's sad that a beautiful girl with a lot of opportunities has turned her life into a train wreck and taken others (including innocent children) with her.

I am just not in the mood to be jumped on for having a shallow opinion. We can't all be geniuses.

Well, TW, if you read my own article on the subject you'll see I don't care about the fact that entertainers exist. I don't think that every musical experience is supposed to be some intellectual musical self-aggrandizement festival, and if you thought that, you missed the point.

1. There are a lot of really talented musicians - many of them scratching for a living.

2. Pop stars use a very few of those musicians as their "band" and they get none of the high dollars the star gets.

3. The "Pop star" is usually "made" by a producer and an image is given them by whatever conglomerate is footing the bill. They don't do it for the craft...they do it for the dollar, and the actual musicians who play the gigs get peanuts in comparison even though the star could not exist without them.

You might say that "well. without the star's popularity, they wouldn't have a gig." Sadly, that isn't the case. One shitty gig is just like another shitty gig. There's plenty of them to go around. Unfortunately, they don't pay very well.

It isn't fair because without the musicians, there would be no star. I just want respect for genuine musicians - the ones playing in the background while star X rakes in the dough. Is that wrong?

Music - at the end of the day - is about entertainment, if it does not provide that, no one is going to listen. Some like the "serious" end of music - some dont, some like some performers - some like others. However if we end up trying to (almost) turn music into some philosphical creed, we are loosing the point, its about Entertainment.

If I like the music, and am entertained by it, I'll buy it. If I think the performer is a jerk - whichever part of the spectrum they come from - I'll probably regress into a human being, and not buy it.

These award ceremonies are now - by in large - commercial vehicles, not a vehicle for the so called "serious" musician. I guarantee any award created for "serious" musicians, will over time, degrade to the point where the declared best "serious" musician will be merely a commercial co-incidence.

Most people will look at the results of such events, and note the result with curiosity and chat about their particular favorites, but thats about it for most people. They are not some Holy Grail of music, never will be, and I doubt the majority of people think they are either.

"Well who are you to judge what is good? Just don't listen if you don't like it. Just hit the BACK button"

Forgive my laspe in memory, I'm trying to remember if I said that? Nudge me a little cause I have no time at the moment to back track to my comments but will later.

(Ok, am I now falling into the group you chastised in your last article?

Same here. I'll refer then I can understand what you're referring.

see I HAVE a degree in music

Good for you!

You've basically just done the equivalent of saying that a guy that swallows multiple colors of paint and then pukes it up on canvas is a great painter - particularly if he wiggles his ass just right in the process

Lets face it, entertainment is in the eyes and ears of the listener, viewer, etc, so to speak. What I might find entertaining, might bore you to tears, as it seems to do here. Being a mom my pallette is very varied and ecompass Elmo and Big Bird and The Bratz as well as Yugiyo (my son will kill me for spelling that wrong, anything Japaness, (his tastes) and includes my daughter's (the older one) love of her varied interests as well. So my taste may not be as sophisticated as others but I do know what I like and I like Justin's dancing, even though his singing may not be as wonderful as say, Enya or Gordon Lightfoot, both of whom I enjoy listening to, he does know how to entertain the masses and has improved over the years.

Sorry. Pet peeve.

! Quite alright. We're all allowed one or two or three! And they, the producers name it "Music Awards".

The fact that you say he's worth every penny he's paid is an affront to all real musicians everywhere

I made that comment in conversation with my hubby, when we were watching the show last night, (he put up with my tastes in programs and actually sat through it while I watched!) we speculated about the money they as entertainers make and my comment was obviously he is worth every penny he earns because of what he can do. Regardless of whether he can read music or not, write music notes, or not, he does write songs, as his success has proven. My comment wasn't to insult anyone at all. Sorry if you felt that way.

He's a whore, and you're buying him. And don't get me wrong, it isn't just Timberlake - it's 97% of mainstream musicians. It's no longer about who can play - it's about who can dance. WTF?

Sad, but a true comment. That's what society likes, they feed into what they want and dishes it out and society eats it all up, otherwise, they don't make anything, plain and simple!


And Ock, for God's sake lighten up a bit man, it's just the MTV Music Award! I know, you can't stand it, but hey, it's MTV! Did you expect any different?

I know that, and have great respect for those who DO have the ability I lack.

As do I. I'm really going to have to go look at that article to see who I chastise!

Damn, Ock. I think Justin Timberlake is a great ENTERTAINER/musician/dancer/whatever. Lots of people do.

Me too!

but I watched MTV's clip of Britney's performance. It was terrible. Her hair looked gross, she moved around like she was on tranquilizers or something, and the lip-syncing was totally off.

Exactly!!

She is NOT fat. She has had 2 kids in 2 years and she looks great considering

I agree on this front! I won't bother to talk about her post baby body, it's just not fair to do that to any woman.

Once upon a time there were musicians who communicated through music. It wasn't all about image and how well they danced. There was worth placed in melody, lyrics, and innovation. Sadly, the musicians are getting older and are taking the next path after life. Too few musicians make it onto the radar screen any longer because it is overwhelmed by the entertainers with their flashy clothes, newest dance moves, and managers hawking their wares. The entertainers lip-sync the words while a studio recording, enhanced to the point of making the most tone deaf sound somewhat close to pitch, plays in the background. Why was it such a big deal when Milli Vanilli was exposed as not singing on their recordings or in their performances? This is routine today.

Very true!

As Ock said, if you are entertained by this then call it what it is. Please do not insult me and other musicians by calling this music and the entertainers musicians.

You know, I don't know why the confusion, I did not name the program, MTV did. Perhaps I should have said the MTV Video Music Awards, which is the full name for it.

He's not being a music snob at all. He IS a MUSICIAN! Justin Timberlake is NOT a musician. I really don't care what lots of people think. Just because the MASSES think it does not make it right. Timberlake is an entertainer.

Yea, he is bing a music snob. Sure seems that way! But I digress.

And I do feel sorry for Britney in a "how sad" sort of way.

I believe that's the general concensus!

Give me Morrison and Santana

They are both on my playlist!

The masses don't want music, they want entertainment. There is no room for an unentertaining musician. If the musicianship is entertaining in and of itself, that's great - otherwise, you have to add something to it. And then you have the real entertainers, the ones who only have music so they can dance to it...

True!

Same with music and entertainers... if you're not one, you'll get confused between the two

I guess at this point, I need my dictionary to decipher for me! Oh boy...!

For the sake of the above erm... discussion, how about a definition:

mu·sic
–noun
1. an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color.
2. the tones or sounds employed, occurring in single line (melody) or multiple lines (harmony), and sounded or to be sounded by one or more voices or instruments, or both.
3. musical work or compositions for singing or playing.
4. the written or printed score of a musical composition.
5. such scores collectively.
6. any sweet, pleasing, or harmonious sounds or sound: the music of the waves.
7. appreciation of or responsiveness to musical sounds or harmonies: Music was in his very soul.

By the above definition, Justin, Britney et al aremusicians as the voice is also an instrument. Now, I'm not saying they're good or even adequate musicians, in MY opinion, but there is no denying their common-denominator appeal. Pop music, after all, is still music.

I lament for all the great musicians I've known in my life who have never achieved the recognition they richly deserve but I certainly don't hold it against those lesser musicians who have attained some success. Yes, it is frustrating and can also be so disappointingly crushing but I learnt long ago to put those ill feelings aside and concentrate on taking as much pleasure as I can from being the best musician I can be, even if I'm only playing for my own enjoyment.

Pop music, after all, is still music.

It is, even though not many people like it. My hubby's fav style of music are those from the old days, the groups like The Dells, The Stylistics and others. I like them too but they are not all I listen to, he listens 99% to them, 1% to Reggae! Pop music is unfortunately the most popular genre right now, and don't quote me on that because I have no figures, it's just my humble opinion!

I lament for all the great musicians I've known in my life who have never achieved the recognition they richly deserve but I certainly don't hold it against those lesser musicians who have attained some success. Yes, it is frustrating and can also be so disappointingly crushing but I learnt long ago to put those ill feelings aside and concentrate on taking as much pleasure as I can from being the best musician I can be, even if I'm only playing for my own enjoyment.

Very well said Mark! It is frustrating, but finding pleasure in what you do, that's the best part!

Music - at the end of the day - is about entertainment, if it does not provide that, no one is going to listen. Some like the "serious" end of music - some dont, some like some performers - some like others. However if we end up trying to (almost) turn music into some philosphical creed, we are loosing the point, its about Entertainment.

I almost forgot you Zydor, very well said!

My point it is and was entertainment, lots of pop, lots of rap, lots of rock and quite a melee inbetween! I didn't like everything about it, hence my tongue-in-cheek opinions and I just could not get over Britney's nonperformance, and neither could anyone else who had seen the show.

If you notice, not many musicians do go to this music award show, unless they are really desperate for attention and trying to promote their art. And their's nothing wrong with them trying to do that at all!

I haven't paid much attention to any award shows since I realized that the bands I like don't even get nominated, much less win anything... or are even asked to perform.

 

Congratulations on knocking mine off the Top Ten Blogs!

I haven't paid much attention to any award shows since I realized that the bands I like don't even get nominated, much less win anything... or are even asked to perform.

A lot of people don't tune in anymore because of this. Plus they always only pick the pop bands because their records sell the most of course!

Congratulations on knocking mine off the Top Ten Blogs!

! I noticed that yesterday when I saw my name on the sidebar and I wondered what I did....! But among the Top 10 Users...Cool!

There was once a time when I would look forward to the VMAs. It seems like I have totally lost interest in it, though. Of course, it doesn't help that I don't watch MTV anymore.

As for the music discussion...gosh, I just listen to whatever tickles my fancy...sometimes it might be Justin, sometimes it might be Bach, sometimes it might be a Mexican musician. I don't really sit down and think, "Hmmm...is this someone worth listening to?"

I just groove to whatever moves me.

I just groove to whatever moves me.

Nothing wrong with getting lost in the music!