I Didn't Have Kids So I Could Beat Them

from JoeUser Forums

It's no secret that I don't believe in spanking.

There are times when my children piss me off so severely that it sure would be satisfying to give them a smack on the behind, but I don't discipline to make myself feel better.  I discipline to raise secure, happy, competent, considerate children.

Therefore, what would make *me* feel better when my child spills Cocoa Puffs all over the kitchen floor (and leaves them there as if there are some magic cereal fairies who clean these things up) does not enter into the equation.

I am a mother.  Being a mother is something unique and wonderful.  I've never been a father so I don't know what that feels like.

I do know what it feels like to go from just me, to literally sharing my body with another human being.  I know what fetal hiccups feel like and I know what it feels like to be awakened in the middle of the night by a baby rolling around inside me.  I know what it's like to give birth and see a baby's head poking through and feel that unstoppable pressure and that uncontrollable urge to push.  I know what it's like to feel those little shoulders and that long little slippery body slide out of my own.  From nursing and umbilical cord stump care to sticky high chairs and plastic dinosaurs hidden under couch cushions to school Christmas programs and markers scattered all over the floor to CD players and Mad Magazine for Kids, I know how special it is to be a mother.

It is a joy and a struggle like no other.

And I am charged with not only making sure these little people survive and are nurtured and not harmed, but also with making sure they learn the things they need to know to thrive when they reach adulthood and I can no longer protect and care for them.  They are not like a lump of clay for me to mold into what I desire.  Children enter the world with personalities and unique desires and their own specific potentials and deficiencies. 

I get to discover my children like an explorer stepping foot on a foreign and exotic land.

As I learn about them and as I make a connection with them and nurture them and know them in the very intimate and special way only an involved and loving mother can, I begin to understand them.  And they begin to trust me and understand that I am there to care for them and help them make choices that benefit them; we have established discipline.

I didn't invest so much of myself into motherhood and raising children just to lazily and angrily beat them for childhood infractions.  Parenthood is not a contest or a power struggle of parent versus child.  Parenthood is a process meant to bring fulfillment and growth to parent and child.

My children are not my adversaries.  I don't want them to grow up to be happy, productive, well-adjusted adults in spite of me.  I want to nurture what is good and right in them and discourage and help them weed out the things in their lives that are negative and destructive.

I love my children.  I want what's best for them, and I am not willing to physically harm them just so some slob in Wal-Mart doesn't think I'm a "bad parent". 

Parenting is worth taking the time and going to the effort to do it right.  Spanking may be the "easy out".  It may provide *instant* results, but knowing my child and treating him or her like an actual human being provides lasting results that I will enjoy for years to come as I take pride in the men and women my children become in adulthood and the fact that they don't grow up to hate me and think of me as the abusive, asshole mom who solved every problem by hitting them.

I want to give my children tools for making good choices, not bruises for making wrong ones. 

A parent who can't provide discipline without resorting to violence is a parent who is not invested in his or her children. 

So far, at ages (almost) 10, 6, and 4 months, my children raised with my "PC horse shit" parenting philosophies are cool (imperfect, like me!) human beings and I would hate to beat the curiosity, precociousness, brilliance, and childlike mischievousness out of them, even if it would make me look like a great mom around the Denny's patrons and grocery store clerks.

I didn't have kids so I could beat them.

blogging
7,641 views 47 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Wow! This mother could not be prouder of the mom you have turn out to be! With all my flows as a perent I don't know how you turned out to be such a great parent. Keep up the good work! I love you very much. Mom
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Mom:

LW:
Hmm, can we draw a line of distinction between spanking and beating?


Sure, but I don't, as a general rule, support spanking *or* "beating" as a form of discipline. That's not to say that I've never spanked my kids, but I haven't since I've known better. And that's not to say I never will again, but I hope I don't fall into that.

I think the occasional quick spank on the rear is often a valid choice, especially when dealing with children too young to respond to reason and in need of immediate, attention-getting discipline...for instance, a child who's pulled away and run out in traffic after being told to hold your hand and wait, or a toddler who reaches towards a hot stove after being told 'no!'


If that were the only time it happened I wouldn't be so critical of it. There are alternative ways to deal with problems like that with young children, but I agree that a swat on the butt is hardly as cruel as allowing them to be splattered by an approaching vehicle.

Spanking isn't the only way to stop a toddler dead in his tracks, though. Or the only way to manage toddler misbehavior. I'm going to bed soon because I stayed up far too late, but I can elaborate on that later if you'd like.

Just as you resent being second-guessed on your ('pc bullshit') choice not to spank, those who do utilize this form of correction resent the implication that they are lazy, mean, or stupid for doing so.


I think you know me well enough to know that I don't care if they resent it.

Seriously, I don't appreciate the implication that progressive attachment parenting is causing overcrowding in our prisons, particularly when the screwed up people I see tend to come from homes where there was abuse, neglect, and dysfunction.

I very strongly believe that the spanking mindset is wrong. I think spanking infrequently sends a bad message and erodes trust. I think spanking for every infraction is lazy parenting and teaches a child little besides "don't let mommy catch me".

I'm not a perfect parent. I make lots and lots of mistakes. But I see the difference in my children when I keep that connection with them and when I show them I value them and give them loving instruction instead simply reacting to misbehavior with physical punishment.

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
We've been 'round this track before, Tex.

As a rule, our kids are RARELY spanked (read: I honestly can't remember the last time they were spanked). It is a punishment we reserve for completely the last resort, when there is no other way to get their attention (which, again, I can't think of an instance to cite, so you'll have to excuse me on that one). That being said, I tend to agree you are being unnecessarily harsh.

I have known parents who are far more liberal with spanking than we are and are still very good parents. I would not characterize their behaviour as "beating" their children, and I reserve for them the right to make that decision, even when it is not the decision I would make.

Just my two cents. If ya ask me, you overpaid.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

I spank my kids.

Like you I am preparing them for real life.  It is my job to train them to understand certain actions have certain consequences and sometimes those are physically painful.

The quickest way for my kids to get a swat is to directly disobey me.  For instance, if we are at a tennis match and I tell my youngest he can play here but not to cross the line.  Then he edges up to the line, puts his toe on it and looks back at me.

He gets a swat, right then and there.

Fear isn't always bad.  I think its healthy for my sons to fear defying my authority.  I don't break certain laws because I fear the consequences.  I love God, yet I fear His wrath.

My kids are funny, intelligent, creative, and most of all KIDS....spanking hasn't changed that.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
My parents beat? spanked? abused? me. It definately went beyond a swat on the butt. My dad has passed away and I have a distant (I mail her a birthday, Christmas and mother's day card every year) relationship with my mom. I don't want my kids to be afraid of me. I do want them to respect me. I don't want my boys to look forward to the day they can get away from me. That was what I learned from how I was raised.

I might not have got it completely right but I do think my kids at least know that I loved them. I never had that much. I have spanked my boys occassionally and I have huge regrets afterward. I don't think it accomplished anything. I lashed out in anger and frustration and it was wrong.

Seriously, I don't appreciate the implication that progressive attachment parenting is causing overcrowding in our prisons, particularly when the screwed up people I see tend to come from homes where there was abuse, neglect, and dysfunction.


Statistics show that prisons are filled with people from both extremes of parenting, the uber-strict households and the neglectful or overly permissive households. I think this shows that the happy medium is the way to go.

Just because you don't spank doesn't mean that they don't have any consequences. You have to figure out what motivates your child. For my oldest, it's losing his game controllers, for my middle one it is not being able to play with his friends. I haven't figured out what's going to work for my youngest yet but I'm working on it.

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
As a rule, our kids are RARELY spanked (read: I honestly can't remember the last time they were spanked). It is a punishment we reserve for completely the last resort, when there is no other way to get their attention (which, again, I can't think of an instance to cite, so you'll have to excuse me on that one). That being said, I tend to agree you are being unnecessarily harsh.

i agree with gid, and take the same approach with my own kids. i have all boys, and i was a boy once too. my parents rarely and prudently spanked me...sometimes it "left a mark" and sometimes it didn't. but it was usually done in a controlled manner and not a fit of rage or a knee jerk reaction and i have tried to do the same. and it was a last resort usually as well.

like ay form of discipline, spanking isn't 100% effective by any means, but in my own life, as a kid, when i knew the consequences of some actions could potentially result in a spank, it kept me fom trouble more often than not. i never, as an adult, ever resented my parents for spanking me for one moment. most of it did me some good. and now as a parent, on those rare times where they may have just simply lost patience with me, i understand now how human that was.

and equating spanking with beating is a stretch at best imho. i hope you you never have to lay a single hand on your children tex. but if you do, i hope you won't feel that you are a bad parent for it. you aren't. you are just a parent like the rest of us. you do the best you can, play the hand you are dealt and do your best to make sure they have all the tools necessary to succeed in life.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I believe it is possible to be a good parent and spank. Discipline is a fine line though. I mean, you don't have to hit to leave an impression on a child.

When I was growing up, I was beaten and slung around the room by my hair or whatever appendage was easily accessible for being a poor student. My parents thought they did everything right. They had my IQ tested and it was very high. They moved me out of the rural public school and several other things. None of that worked. I was still a poor student. I must not be applying myself, right? Wrong. I am terribly dyslexic and I have serious issues with ADD. A good beating did wonders for those problems.

My parents hit when they should have been looking for a resolution. In the end we all suffered. Our relationship is terribly strained to this day and I didn't receive the help I needed when it could have been beneficial.

I think hitting is a last resort in every situation. There has to be a better way to deal with it.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
If I ever have kids I'm sure the psychological damage I could do would be much worse than what I could accomplish by spanking. (If you don't listen to me, monsters will eat you) I just hope my kids would take after me...I was actually quite well disciplined right out of the womb. I don't recall ever really being in trouble except for here and there and nothing big at that.

~Zoo
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
If I ever have kids I'm sure the psychological damage I could do would be much worse than what I could accomplish by spanking.


true,,,mental abuse can be far more powerful than the physical sometimes. but social services, like most people, are only capable of comprehending (or miscomprehending)what is gotten thru the path of least resistance
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gid:
That being said, I tend to agree you are being unnecessarily harsh.


It's always considered "unneccessarily harsh" when you step on the toes of people you like.

Spanking is not the be-all and end-all of family discipline. In 99.999999% of circumstances there is a solution that doesn't involve striking a child. What stops loving, involved, earnest parents from taking the time to discipline in a way that doesn't involve putting their hands on their child?

I would really like to know.

Lazy parents spank because it's an easy way to temporarily modify their child's behavior without having to connect with their child or provide instruction. Admitting that there are parents who want the best for their children who spank, what stops those from going the extra mile?

I would not characterize their behaviour as "beating" their children, and I reserve for them the right to make that decision, even when it is not the decision I would make.


Couple of things...beating makes a more "compelling" title and I'm not saying parents don't have the RIGHT to spank, I'm saying I don't think it's a good choice and it's not something I would choose for my family.

More later...
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Couple of things...beating makes a more "compelling" title


A sensationalist title to draw people to your blog? I am shocked, Tex! SHOCKED!

(LOL!)
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
scandalous, i know! haha

nak - sorry
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
What stops loving, involved, earnest parents from taking the time to discipline in a way that doesn't involve putting their hands on their child?


Nothing stops me, except the fact I consider spanking a useful discipline tool. It doesn't make me any less loving, involved or earnest.

Also wanted to add...I often threaten my kids with "I'm gonna beat you!" I don't understand why they laugh when I say it....  

This most often occurs after some horrendous prank they play on me...and I yell it as they are running away laughing hysterically.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't beat, I spank, when necessary and it's the last resort, unless that child did something that really warrant a couple of swats on the butt to reinforce you don't play with fire, or you don't try to blind your brother or you don't go outside, and near the pond of water when I told you not to! I'm not ashamed to admit that I spank, but I don't use it to have my children fear me.

I use the usual tools of discipline, the loss of watching a fav program, or playing with friends, or not going to the movies as planned or something that would make the discipline useful and a learning experience. I also use my voice a lot and I talk, talk, talk because I believe in communication. And I teach my children to come to me and lets talk it out. Don't be afraid to say something, and I badger them until they confess. When they think I would be angry, I don't. I use real-life experiences as examples.

A parent tries to do so much for their child/children and it's up to each individual to do what is right for their own family.

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Kids - dreading the day I have my first.

Okay, so not really dreading it. Just all of the responsibilities. It's hard enough now to be worrying about college and other important things in my life and I have two younger brothers [14 & 10] running around the housing pissing my off like none other! Gahhhh they are so nerve racking...sometimes I just wish I could beat them to the ground. But I know I never could even if I honestly really wanted to.

I really don't believe in spanking. I think it has to do with myself being spanked so much when I was much younger. My dad had a really bad problem with spanking me a lot....and he spanked for reasons that don't make much sense to me.

Now smacking on the other hand....I feel that it's different than spanking. Smacking to me is just like, "No, don't do that again." If that makes sense.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Tova: First, let me say that I think you're an awesome mother. I don't think I'll ever been even half the mom you are. You are devoted, involved, and loving with your children and I don't question your parenting abilities AT ALL.

The quickest way for my kids to get a swat is to directly disobey me. For instance, if we are at a tennis match and I tell my youngest he can play here but not to cross the line. Then he edges up to the line, puts his toe on it and looks back at me.
He gets a swat, right then and there.


And it works. But there are other things that work, too, that don't require striking a child.

The thing is, most (not all) spanking parents I've encountered are not invested in their children the way you are in yours. They don't know their kids and they don't discipline with a long-term goal in mind. They just *react* to misbehavior. They don't teach.

Consequences don't have to be physical, and in fact, I think direct and natural consequences are easier for children to understand.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't think I'll ever been even half the mom you are. You are devoted, involved, and loving with your children and I don't question your parenting abilities AT ALL.


Thanks Tex. I didn't mean to sound defensive, if I did. This is one of those subjects for me that is hard to really discuss without body language. Like when I say I threaten my kids with beatings....hahahaha. I do, but its a joke in our family. I also threaten to beat my husband's butt, but he doesn't laugh, he just wiggles his eyebrows.

Fear me.

Consequences don't have to be physical, and in fact, I think direct and natural consequences are easier for children to understand.


I agree and actually try (sometimes very hard) to find "natural consequences." However they aren't always feasible. Take the tennis court example. My first choice would be to pick Gavin up and remove him from the situation. But I won't do that. I won't penalize Hunter by missing his games because his brother is disobedient. Not to mention Gavin is old enough to start learning the family doesn't revolve around him.

The second option is to let him get onto the court...not really an option. He'd get run over, we'd get kicked out, on and on.

The third option is to make him sit beside me...a loss of freedom (but time out doesn't phase him).

The swat is for direct disobedience..that "make me" attitude, and the loss of freedom (which I go ahead and do) is for violating the boundaries I gave him.

It isn't my first choice, but sometimes a situation has to be dealt with imo right away, and the first and best option isn't always doable.

Gavin can be in the middle of a breath holding tantrum and a quick swat makes him take a breath and not pass out. Of course he tells me "God says not to spank me!"

hahahahaha.

I do get what you are saying, and this........
Children enter the world with personalities and unique desires and their own specific potentials and deficiencies.
I get to discover my children like an explorer stepping foot on a foreign and exotic land


is so wise....I want you to be my mom. I am actually thinking about rewording it a bit, and making something out of it to hang on the wall, with calligraphy or something.


Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have to chime in on this as Tex's mom. She was raised in a home where spanking was the main punishment. That was the discipline of choose a lot because that was what her parents was taught when they was growing up and that was what all the older people around them said was the right thing to do. And I have to say as will I personally found it easier to spank my two children and get the punishment over. I hated seeing them sad because they were grounded. So yes it was the easy way for me. When Tex and her husband decided not to spank their children I really worried that their children would be wild undisciplined children. But after staying with her for six months I found that they have the best adjusted and good behaving boys I have ever seen. I am not saying this because she is my daughter. If this was not true I would just not say a word. I really wish that I had been half the mother she is to her children.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
I haven't read all the replies, so forgive me if I'm redundant here.

To compare spanking to beating is unfair Tex. There are many responsible parents that use spanking as a tool of discipline. It's biblical as well. I did. We spanked our kids. They all turned out very well. I was actually told last week by a mom of a 10 year old boy that in their family they look up to my boys as role models.

Not bad for being spanked huh?

Spanking is NOT the easy way out. Nobody enjoys spanking their child. Usually with spanking comes discussion and further restrictions depending on the infraction.

Most of the time if done right, the spanking years are over by seven or eight. Beating is wrong. I agree, but spanking is not and to be dogmatic about it is very subjective. While I say spanking can be a good tool used in discipline not all kids need this. My oldest son did not. I never spanked him. The other two got them as needed. One boy stole from us when he was about 8 or so, he got spanked. That same boy directly defied us another time and got spanked for that as well. My youngest drew on the wall with crayon, quite the art show, and you guessed it, got spanked for that as well.

The spanking always resulted in better behavior. We told them we loved them but what they did was unacceptable and there were consequences for their actions. Sometimes one kid learned from the other. I never had a theft problem with the other two. I never had another artistic experience played out on my wall from any of them, etc. Later when the discipline style changed as they grew they knew we meant business. No longer spankings were given out but they knew it wouldn't be pleasant so they didn't bother acting up much. It wasn't worth it. So if anything the spankings as very young children helped tremendously in their teen years. Something many don't think about.

There's an old joke when teachers were allowed to slap children in school (another subject here) about a woman bringing her son to school for the first time in a new school. She said, "My boy Tommy is very sensitive and meek. You never have to slap him for doing wrong. All you have to do is slap the boy next to him and my Tommy will straighten right out." This is very true.

I also heard a statistic way back that if you go and interview the inmates in prison you'd find they were either beaten (not spanked) by their parents or never spanked at all. I believe it is very rare to find a parent who lovingly disciplined their child via spanking as a youngster visiting their child in jail.

Just my two cents Tex.



Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
The thing is, most (not all) spanking parents I've encountered are not invested in their children the way you are in yours(ed: speaking to tova7). They don't know their kids and they don't discipline with a long-term goal in mind. They just *react* to misbehavior. They don't teach.


this is about as much of a blatant and false generalization as i have seen on here in a long time. sounds like you are basing your opinions on either (or both) what you see some yahoo do in public when he smacks his kid in the mall (or wherever)or just basing it on your own upbringing, which may or may not have been improper.

when i have been in the position where a spanking was deemed necessary. it is done out of a controlled stance. i said that before, you just seem to get that or think it's the exception, rather than a rule with many parents. in fact, every parent i know approaches spanking as a last or almost last resort. they all find they are in pain making the decision. i now know, as a parent, know what "this will hurt me more than it hurts you" means now. my wife and i have had painful discussions on the discipline of our children and approach it equally and with respect for each other's values.

does that mean that parents don't occasionally lose their temper or have a knee jerk reaction? of course it doesn't. but make no mistake, i am not equating that to a pattern of abuse by any means. but a bad human reaction is just that, human. it's not bad parenting. maybe making these charges make you feel better than other parents by accusing them of being lazy and uninvolved in their children's lives. maybe you are just somehow doing something theraputic from what is mentioned about your own backround. i don't know and can only speculate there. but i do know that you are dead wrong for judging other parents in the way that you do. and i also know that your charges, at least in my experience in my own family and in the circles i have traveled, are just plain wrong.

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top

There is "giving your kid a spank", "spanking", and "beating".

All are very different. 

When my daughter was younger, there were times that the *only* way that you could get her attention was to give her a smack on the butt.  Even my Mom, who wasn't pro-spanking even when I was a kid, had to do it a couple times.  Was I lazy or a bad parent because of it?  Nope.  It was the only thing that stood between chaos on discipline at the time.  If I didn't give her a smack, she wouldn't stop and pay attention to what I was saying "no" about.  It's just the way she was.

However, she doesn't act like that now.  She knows the consequences.  It would have been nice, and easier for me if I never had to do it.  But, that just wasn't so.  Not all kids react to punishment the same way.  You can reason, plead, yell, or whatever you can think of with some kids, and it won't matter.  But, a quick smack on the butt will get their attention.

Spanking (ie: putting a kid over your knee and repeatedly spanking them) is the Beginning stage of "beating" in my book.  It is in a whole different class than what most people I know talk about when they say "spanking", because they really mean that they give their kid one spank to get the kid's attention.

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Spanking (ie: putting a kid over your knee and repeatedly spanking them) is the Beginning stage of "beating" in my book.


nonsense.

the "quick smack" is closer to beating as it is not usualy an act of self discipline and the very definition of a "knee jerk" reaction.

when a "spanking" as you describe happens in my household, it is controlled and explained beforehand. it is not about a temper or the loss of it.

the differnce between the "spank" or smack and the beating is the control of the person smacking realizing that either they had done enough to get the attention of the child, or have gone slightly over the top. the "beating" occurs when that smack is followed by more smacks and end up on other partsof the body. but a smack is much closer to a beating than is a controlled and explained form of discipline that have nothing to do with a lack of emotional control by the parent.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ok, guys I'm completely and utterly wrong.

Spank away.

I'm not going to hit (spank, beat, smack, "give a spank", whoop, strike, etc.) my kids. I don't have the energy to meticulously defend my position if there were even anyone here receptive to it. This is the wrong place for me to share my views on parenting.

I'm sorry.

I'm just going to have to pull a Marcie on this one (sorry, Marcie). I'm just too tired to deal with this.

Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm not going to hit (spank, beat, smack, "give a spank", whoop, strike, etc.) my kids. I don't have the energy to meticulously defend my position if there were even anyone here receptive to it. This is the wrong place for me to share my views on parenting.


actually, i appreciate you bringing up the subject and having a discussion about it. really.

folks who claim this 'holier than thou " stance often don't understand the other side where parents make other choices. this leads to misinformation (like equating any physical punishment with abuse or using derrogatory terms (like beating) loosely as possible to make a case). that leads to parents being abused by (i'm sure) well meaning social workers having to "do something" to quiet all the "holier than thou" types down. and that leads to good families being destroyed.

i really do respect your right to make your decisions on the disciplining of your child. i just ask you to have that same respect for those who make different, but no less thoughtful decisions about their family. your crass and innacurate description of those who make different decisions than you does no one any good and only causes more b.s. in our society. that was my main "beef" with the article. but that also doesn't mean that society should turn a blind eye to actual abuse and be aware enough to recognize the patterns. but when you start equating a controlled spank with a violent, out of control beating, you cloud the situation and create an adversity that doesn't need to exist. we can both be good parents while making different decisions for our own. and we can work together to ensure that no child is abused, be it physical, mental or whatever kind of abuse a parent dreams up.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
sean: I don't like you. I think you're a pompous blowhard jerk. Please don't post on my threads.

I'd blacklist you, but I don't think that feature is working right now.