PenicillinX57

On resource collection...

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On resource collection...

from Sins Forums
While playing some Supreme Commander this afternoon, the thought occurred to me that resource collection in RTS games is just a giant pain in the ass. In SupCom, for example, you have to individually lay down each power generator and mass collector. This works great in the beginning of a match because you can just queue up a nice big set of orders and move on to something else. But a few minutes later, you have to queue up more resource collection and tediously manage the upgrading of every single generator and mass collector. Ugh.

From what I've read, Sins is going to have the option to automate a lot of the tedious RTS stuff, but why not get rid of the tedious stuff altogether? Say, for example, when you capture a planet it just starts producing resources. And to control the ratio of what resources are being collected, you can just move simple slider bars. Basically, they need to bring the planet management of GalCiv into a real-time game.

I don't mind building major structures like research facilities and factories, but having to click through hundreds of individual power generators and farms (hello SupCom) is not fun. Plus, it gives a huge advantage to the player that knows the 100% most efficient build order for all those hundreds of resource gather nodes.

Is there any info known about how Sins is going to handle this?
85,985 views 49 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top
It can be done the way I want and still have good everything, but it is just a quextion so whatever.
Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top
I dont get what your saying.
how are you going to handle extreme game slowdown?
how do you plan on keeping a beachhead planet?
how do you plan on keeping it from affecting the game speed (because that could easily become way too many ships way too fast)
The Political Machine 2024
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top
Sorry for the post I gave in response Schem, I was sleepy and not paying attention.


Anywho, what I was asking was which style of resource collection are they planning on using. The typical one, or a more realistic and( given the contexted of the game) fitting way of convoys.


Back before they took the pics of the ships away, I thought i had seen a picture of a Vasarri transport, and the cruisers fo the TEC are modifications of Transport Hulls, so they already have the framework.


To answer your questions, you must first take into consideration that they plan to have large numbers of ships and debris in the game already therefore it is entirely possibly to add a few more ships to the game without there being much of a problem.


Before I answer, I would like to again point out that I have no knowledge of the dev teams' planned implimentation of the resource collection procsess, the only information I am using is the information given about other topics of this game, and what I would do if I were to impliment a collection process with transport fleets and the like.


1) To answer how one would keep a beachhead planet, there would be a few options:
-a. Bring with your attacking fleet a Construction ship and a few transport ships ladened with the necsessary materials for building an outpost. Make sure that in you initial bas construction you build a resource silo/warhouse,(for the storage of need materials) a depot( for the processing and distribution of the needed materials), and of course initiall defensive installations whatever they happen to be.
-b. Bring a construction ship( I would think that a construction ship would have some building mats with it, if not, bring some transport ships aswell) with your fleet, after colonizing the planet, begin the extraction with resource collectors, and use the resources to begin building a defensive outpost.
-c. A combination of the two.
-d. Bring a Badass no nonsense fleet to break out cans of ass whoopin when needed.

2 & 3) These two are pretty closely tied together, so I will answer them as one. The key to both, would be use only as many ships as neccessary and make sure that player built structures are used. By this, I mean that you would have your resourceing opt. going on say 6 of the 9 planets in a particular system( ranging from asteroid to planetary mining). You would have an on site HQ(like any mining opt.) that would serve as both the Directing station and prep-facility for the smaller transport ships( this building would give a small bonus to mining operations).

From there, the resources a picked up by a smaller transport ship(created by a shipyard, or at your System Recource Operations/Construct Center)(*1a) and taken to your SROCC( or whatever they would call it). At the system stations, the material is then added to your empires tally for that recource.

Now, should you want to Construct anything in the system, you would just select the building from your que and a little construction ship scurries out from the station to go build.

For the sake of keeping ship numbers down, this station would also be able to construct Intersolar Freighters(*2a) whos purpose whould be to either trade with other empires and for the re-allocation of materials to other SROCCs throughout your empire.

You would only need one major SROCC per system( again I dont know how many systems and the like so alteration to my idea may need additional tailoring) and one transport ship per mining operation. The only thing that would really take some looking at is how one would defend this and how many ships would some one would actually use. It can be done, but then again, if some one goes overboard then maybe not.

However, if everyone in the game has to pay a maintinance(sp) fee for all his/her ships out there, then slap some fees on and see whats what.


*1a. you can have more then one station of this type, and the mining opts. can set delivery points to any of them.*

*2a There could also be a IF(aa) for the TEC or perhaps the other races. This is an Armed&Armored varient of the standard Intersolar Frieghter designed to withstand light raid attempts. These would be noticably stronger but carry less and are much more expensive.*

Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top
ok, that makes a bit of sense.

but it just sounds to me like your asking for cinematics transporting the materials from surface to orbit and when in trading.
Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top
Not at all, I would like them to actually carry the cargo, so that if an enemy fleet raids and say destroys these vessels, there will still be cargo containers that are undamaged and able to be recovered although you would want to capture the ship yourself. The whole point of that, would be to add another aspect of trading, and raiding, and make sure that there is no carelessness lest you run the risk of the price for being careless.
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top
it still sounds overly clunky, it would require a lot of refining and finetuning.
Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top
Well, now that I'm more informed (according to the PC Gamer preview) the resources are finite, so making sure they don't run out is a part of the game. Bad news for Total Annihilation fans, but apparently this opens up market manipulation strategies. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it works in the beta
Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top
the resources are finite

*GASP*
*FREAK*
*DIE*

agh... this is terrible.
with a soft cap this'll cause severe problems. I can already see it.
Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top
Extractable resources being finite doesn't mean there isn't a way to keep going
Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top
but it'll but a severe limit on growth.

not to mention it FORCES you to play a certain style, and I don't like that.
Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top
the resources are finite

My english to danish translater didnt know the word "finite" so ill guess it means limited.

True planets run out of resources, But that doesnt mean your stuck. Blair once told there is marketplace where you can trade all you want.

Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top
if all your planets eventually cut out and there is no way to replace that massive influx then yes, you will eventually get stuck.
Reply #38 from Sins Forums Top
OMW, if they are finite, then that would make the storage, protection, and transportation of them all the more interesting to have in the game. Imagine if a player has a major convoy get ripped apart by a cloaked vasari fleet or something of that nature. That would be a huge blow to ones economy.

it still sounds overly clunky, it would require a lot of refining and finetuning.


One easy work around would be to not have a ships pysically carry anbything, but upon its destruction generate a few cargo containers or something similar. It may be a little clunky, but it would be insanely fun. That is an efficient way to bleed an enemy dry. If that enemy wantes to defend its convoys, that means that they will be forced to increase escort number/quality. If this is done then most likely, they will leave planets a with a little lighter garrison or have weaker quick response fleets.

All you would have to do then is up the bounty, then wait for a planet to get weakened. Once tha happens, you attack.
Reply #39 from Sins Forums Top
then that would make the storage, protection, and transportation of them all the more interesting to have in the game

the downside is that it stops out a ton of potential strategies cold, efficiently cutting them off.
I'm no big fan of that.
Reply #40 from Sins Forums Top

if all your planets eventually cut out and there is no way to replace that massive influx then yes, you will eventually get stuck.


as i said above. Theres a marketplace where you can trade for what you need.
If you got alot of cash, you could trade some of that into crystals or what ever
So i dont think you will get stuck.
Reply #41 from Sins Forums Top
but how do you get that cash?

exactly.
Reply #42 from Sins Forums Top
Taxes from the population on your planets.

The more ppl on the planet = the more cash you get
Reply #43 from Sins Forums Top
True planets run out of resources, But that doesnt mean your stuck. Blair once told there is marketplace where you can trade all you want.

Phenomenal! So I guess the game slows but doesn't die.
Reply #44 from Sins Forums Top
Skirmish option to make resources infinite? - I like really long games...
Reply #45 from Sins Forums Top
hehe yeah same here.
As soon, as i can play it. I will start with the biggest universe as possible.
Reply #46 from Stardock Forums Top
I really like the idea of finite resources it ensures that you actually have to plan ahead and make sure that your fleets survive instead of just trading ships for ships until somebody's economy calls it quits.

I would like technology to make a difference in resource gathering.
I.e. 'That planet is full of resource we desperately need to manufacture pine scented bridge fresheners, but sadly it's surface temperature is 8000 deg C. But thanks to a breakthrough in full body oven mitts we are finally capable of harvesting them'

It's one of the aspects I don't like in glacis 2. You can't really hurt the other player’s economy by destroying ships, because he'll always be able to produce more.
Reply #47 from Sins Forums Top
It's one of the aspects I don't like in glacis 2. You can't really hurt the other player’s economy by destroying ships, because he'll always be able to produce more.

well how do you expect to win by attrition? thats a terrible strategy.
when playing a game, take Sun Tzu's warnings in reverse. like so
4. attack my people if at all
3. attack my cities not at all
2. attack my supplies if you must but
1. never attack my army.

of course Sun Tzu's original is more like this

1. attack my army if at all
2. attack my supply lines if you must
3. attack my cities if you wish to lose but
4. never attack my people.
I really like the idea of finite resources it ensures that you actually have to plan ahead and make sure that your fleets survive instead of just trading ships for ships until somebody's economy calls it quits.

well they'd better master this quickly, because I'm not settling for playing a game in a matter of minutes because I have no backup resource.
Reply #48 from Stardock Forums Top
It's one of the aspects I don't like in glacis 2. You can't really hurt the other player’s economy by destroying ships, because he'll always be able to produce more.

well how do you expect to win by attrition? thats a terrible strategy.
when playing a game, take Sun Tzu's warnings in reverse. like so
4. attack my people if at all
3. attack my cities not at all
2. attack my supplies if you must but
1. never attack my army.

of course Sun Tzu's original is more like this

1. attack my army if at all
2. attack my supply lines if you must
3. attack my cities if you wish to lose but
4. never attack my people.


Well I agree with you that it's not a nice Strategy, but you don't always have the luxury of choosing your enemies or be in a much stronger position than your current enemy. I like the idea of fighting enemies who a roughly my equal or withering down an enemy whilst i'm occupied elsewhere. Not every strategy has to be blitzkrieg nor does every strategy need to involvee definite win.

It's a game thats what makes it fun, doing things whichs arn't nessecarily smart and trying to win at any cost.
Some of the best games i've had where games that i've lost. I remeber one game of BOTF that was a downhill battle against the Borg for every player in the game. In the end I was the only one left.
Reply #49 from Sins Forums Top
Well I agree with you that it's not a nice Strategy, but you don't always have the luxury of choosing your enemies or be in a much stronger position than your current enemy

you DO have the choice of where to attack them.
I remeber one game of BOTF that was a downhill battle against the Borg for every player in the game. In the end I was the only one left.

sounds fun.