I'm prejudiced

shameless bump

So am I biased? You bet.

Yeah, but you're cute.

Yeah, I'd say he's a hero whether he served in the military or not (yes, I served). Anyone who puts themselves at risk to save someone else is a hero.

To me, calling some moron who plays a game for a living a hero is denigrating the word.

I watched the whole show, and I about cried the whole time. They interviewed the two police officers that he saved, one of whom can barely walk and who has undergone about 30 surgeries to correct all of his injuries. He would have been dead if Jason Thomas hadn't found him.

I wish you would have seen the part where Jason Thomas said he would die for this country because he loves it. How many people in the military can say that honestly? Probably not as large of a percentage as we'd like to think. This man had passion and conviction in his voice. He was weeping when the local marine company came to welcome him and his family into their new home, and when the first seargent shook his hand. The seargent was trying not to cry when Jason was talking with him about how many soldiers they've lost and they were "talking shop" about being Marines.

Yeah...I don't know...I'd consider this dude a hero.

Is a soldier who serves in the military during times of peace any less of a hero than one that serves during times of war? If you're not a soldier, or related to one, do you have absolutely NO chance EVER of being a hero? I don't think that's right either. I think lots of people are heros to others. I think you can be a hero if you're a soldier, a firefighter, a police officer, a teacher, a parent, a grandparent, a brother, or a sister, a survivor, a sinner, a saint, a football or a baseball player, etc., etc.

I'm never going to be a soldier, but maybe one day I can be a hero to someone, too. I might not save someone from the brink of death, but maybe I can provide a life-changing opportunity, or a chance for growth, or an overwhelming sense of love for someone that they never would have had otherwise. I think those things can make a hero, too.

I should first probably admit my own bias, eh? My dad is retired Army serving in the first Gulf War and my brother is a fire fighter.

Ok, with that out of the way...



I would think that you could claim that the same sacrifices are made by members of our police forces and fire departments. Soldiers have a specific tour of duty -- when they are stateside or we are at peace, the job is less dangerous (but please, do not think for a minute that I am trying to downplay their contribution).

For fire fighters and police officers there is no down-time. Sure they don't have to go away for a year, but they do go to work every day knowing that there is a potential for them to lose their life for the sake of someone else. So, in my mind, yes, they are heroes.

I'm the same way, LH. I think it's just because of how we live.

I agree with Shades that the military doesn't OWN sacrifice and heroism, but I tend to think more highly of service members. Not on purpose. I just can't seem to help it.

(Navy and Chair Force are generally low on my impressed scale, btw )

Yeah, it's not like they've saved thousands of soldiers lives through air assaults and air cover or anything.

Yes, I know, every job in every branch is important and they're all on the same team, etc, etc.

I was teasing (mostly).

I know you're former Navy and I don't think less of you because of it. (That is ALSO teasing.)

I think you have a point actually, lifehappens. Lemme 'splain. No, it would take too long. Lemme sum up.

See, many of us get the chance to do something heroic in our lifetimes. Most of those actions go unnoticed, but the truth is, most good and decent people have a few heroic ACTIONS to their credit. There's something different about heroism lived over a lifetime.

One of my personal heroes was a man by the name of Rick Rescorla. Rick died on 9/11 as the security chief of Morgan Stanley Deam Witter, and by all accounts, he saved the lives of some of his coworkers. But a whole lifetime earlier, he was a hero in the battle made famous by the movie "We Were Soldiers"...and in between, he proved himself a hero in the FIRST World Trade Center bombing. This man lived a LIFE of heroism, rather than just being given over to a few heroic acts. And many of our soldiers can claim the same dedication to heroism.

There are domestic heroes, to be sure. But there are few people outside the military who've had a chance to repeatedly PROVE their heroism.

Yup, I am former Navy and was heavily involved in ground ops and combat situations.

At the end, the guy said that he didn't consider himself a hero, that he was a Marine, and that it was his job to go in and save people. So, ABC may think he's a hero, but that's just part of his character.

First, prejudice is not necessarily bad.  Everyone has it.  We are prejudice against hot pots, so we use care and protection when handling them (simple example).  So no, to your title question.  A person without prejudice is not living.

But to your point of this case, I dont think you being prejudiced against certain types of people to be bad either.  We each have our heros, and a hero to some, may not be to others.  It is human nature.  But I agree with the consensus here.  In my mind, a hero is one who risks his life to save others.  Whether in combat, or fighting a fire.

I saw a few spouses of civilians killed in the world trade center.  They were complaining because the million or so they got in charity wasn't enough.  That really irked me.

How many military spouses were handed hundreds of thousands of dollars by the public when their husband's died?  I don't mean SGLI which they pay for...I mean straight up, HERE YA GO!

To me it was a slap in the face of every soldier who served, died, and his family suffered financially afterward.

I also thought it set a very dangerous precedent.  This is bound to happen again, and again.  Are we going to give millions to the spouses of civilians every time?  What about all the soldiers who died between 9/11 and the next time?  Too bad so sad?

So I guess that makes me bias too.  Yes a hero can take many forms, not necessarily just military, but I do tend to put the military at the front of the list.  And like Tex, I like some branches better than others.

I also thought it set a very dangerous precedent. This is bound to happen again, and again. Are we going to give millions to the spouses of civilians every time? What about all the soldiers who died between 9/11 and the next time? Too bad so sad?

I think the reason for the big money from the government to the survivors of 9/11 is because the government was protecting the airlines from going out of business. They were afraid if all the victims/survivors sued the airlines it would put them out. I agree though I saw some of the widows on O'Reilly and it seemed like they thought they should all have their homes paid off and never have another bill for the rest of their lives. Of course, it's a tragedy to lose your husband but I don't think it was anymore of a tragedy because they died in the 9/11 attacks than if they died in another way.

As far as being prejudiced, I think it's kind of just a human trait to feel like the people who are like you are all in the same club so to speak. You feel their losses and triumphs more than you do other people. It's funny when it becomes so clear at times. You see a news story about someone and make a judgement call about whether that person is good or bad, right or wrong but then you find out they're from your hometown, or went to your college, or served in your command and all of a sudden they are transformed into better people because of it.

I wish you would have seen the part where Jason Thomas said he would die for this country because he loves it. How many people in the military can say that honestly? Probably not as large of a percentage as we'd like to think. This man had passion and conviction in his voice. He was weeping when the local marine company came to welcome him and his family into their new home, and when the first seargent shook his hand. The seargent was trying not to cry when Jason was talking with him about how many soldiers they've lost and they were "talking shop" about being Marines.

When I saw that part, that's what changed my opinion of him. Sad but true.

I think lots of people are heros to others.

And this wasn't to denigrate anyone who is a hero. I just found it puzzling that he was praised as a hero (at least in the ads) for saving someone ON 9/11!! As though the date made him more of a hero.

I agree with Shades that the military doesn't OWN sacrifice and heroism, but I tend to think more highly of service members. Not on purpose. I just can't seem to help it.

EXACTLY!

One of my personal heroes was a man by the name of Rick Rescorla. Rick died on 9/11 as the security chief of Morgan Stanley Deam Witter, and by all accounts, he saved the lives of some of his coworkers. But a whole lifetime earlier, he was a hero in the battle made famous by the movie "We Were Soldiers"...and in between, he proved himself a hero in the FIRST World Trade Center bombing. This man lived a LIFE of heroism, rather than just being given over to a few heroic acts. And many of our soldiers can claim the same dedication to heroism.

and I bet he was remembered (by the media) more for his actions on 9/11 than any other heroism.

At the end, the guy said that he didn't consider himself a hero, that he was a Marine, and that it was his job to go in and save people. So, ABC may think he's a hero, but that's just part of his character.

That's part of being a hero. Getting a purple heart for a splinter and bragging about it....well, that tarnishes the heroic glow.

To me it was a slap in the face of every soldier who served, died

I had the same feelings and I still do. I think it is a very dangerous precedent to set.

And like Tex, I like some branches better than others.

At one point, when I was young and naive, the marines had an extra point because on top of being the best of the best.....they look so hot in their dress uniform..... (and no, drooling doesn't take away any of the greatness....but they do have very short PT shorts....)

It's funny when it becomes so clear at times. You see a news story about someone and make a judgement call about whether that person is good or bad, right or wrong but then you find out they're from your hometown, or went to your college, or served in your command and all of a sudden they are transformed into better people because of it.

I'm glad that other people understand and have the same reaction sometimes. It's human nature, but to see it so vividly, well, it says something about me. I may not change my internal biases, but at least I am aware of them and I can consciously make adjustments to them.

At least you recognize your bias for what it is.

I'll nominate your family for the show. You guys deserve it.

Plus, you love home renovations, it's right up your alley.

~cocks eyebrow at the neon-illuminated chip on LH's shoulder, the one that bears the sign: 'Knock me off, already! Do you dare?' and decides that yes indeed, she will take the dare.~

This is why i love you.

You certainly don't have to be a member of the armed forces to be a hero. In fact, being a member of the armed forces doesn't guarantee that status, even if you see combat. Lots of soldiers aren't heros in any sense of the word.

Agreed. My brother is a prime example of a loser....and he was military.

For every soldier that sees combat, there are probably a thousand or more that never get their boots dirty. That's not to say that these folks wouldn't act heroically if given a chance, but no, they don't automatically get a hero tag in my book just for signing up,

Also agreed.

There's another big difference between your 'everday' hero and those who engage in this sort of thing for a living.

admittedly so. The man who saved a guy from being crusthed by the subway was a hero. EH acted above an beyond the call of duty and was willing to sacrifice himself to save another. But a soldier that throws himself on a landmine to save his buddy or risks his life to put down suppressive fire or the fireman who enters a burning building or the cop who goes into danger.....they are all heros. Their paycheck doesn't diminsh the value of their life and thier heroism.

BUT going above and beyond the call of duty on one day does not make you more of a hero. it's not the individual that I had the lesser image of, but the media portrayal of them. I hate the fact that people who acted heroiclyon ONE PARTICULAR DAY are automatically considered patriots and heros. why is the date so important? Now I will admit that I was in error. I assumed that this was just some guy who did something great on (hushed voice) 9/11. LOTS of people did great things that day and i didn't see why they had to make such a big deal about this particular guy. I assumed (wrongly) that his one claim was te date he saved these guys. After seeing the last few minutes and getting clued in by a few people here. I realize that he was really a hero. Not because of the day he saved someone, but because he was a hero. He had proven his character time and again, through service, sacrifice etc for more that one day, but for his whole life. HE was a hero.

But I admit, my initial evaluation of him was really affected my seeing that he was a Marine. It does not mean he (or others like him) are better than Joe Shmo who saves someone on the spur of the morning. The uniform does NOT automatically grant hero status.

So here I am agreeing with you. *BUT* I still have an internal bias....for those who serve.....and against those who milk the date for extra "hero" points.

*BUT* I still have an internal bias....for those who serve.....and against those who milk the date for extra "hero" points.

I know HE didn't milk it. The media frenzy was self induced.

You should LH, it's a great movie!



I like that you see your bias ways, you identified with it and you owned it. You are who you are true and true and that's what makes you a good person!


I saw the beginning of the show, then only watch parts of it. I think he did a good thing, because he didn't have to do what he did at all.

Thinking about how we view heroes and the criteria we use to define them reminds me of a good movie I saw years ago. It was called 'Hero' (what else?) and it starred Dustin Hoffman. Ever see it? It's worth a look.

VERY good movie. i'll have to watch it again. i admit, I am a sucker for any good hero story, whether it be Heroes (tv show), Hero (movie) Unbreakable, one of the "comic book superhero" moives, or just one about someone conquering seemingly insurmountable odds.

I like that you see your bias ways, you identified with it and you owned it. You are who you are true and true and that's what makes you a good person!

And that is the idea. What other unintentional or unrecognized biases so we have that shape our opinions?

It seems that the media will assign the title of "Hero" to whomever they determine a hero to be...and we follow along without giving it too much thought. The consensus of this thread seems to "get it" that hero is a title that needs to be earned. It is NOT specifically a military title although I understand why the former and the wives of would feel that way. In our little community around the Swirling Epicenter the local newsies bestow the title to every GI who comes home in a CBA. Not to diminish any loss, but come on...is every passenger in an exploded HUMMER a hero? Do you get the title by proximity? "I am there, therefore...". Is it actions or presence that earns the title? And for Little Whip...it is even worse than you imagine...even in a combat zone the ratio of support troops to warriors is in the neighborhood of 40 to 1. (I know...in this conflict anyone is fair game, even and especially the remfs).

What really galls me about the subject is the fact that the people who ARE heroes and have earned the title through their actions are not being recognized. Except for Purple Hearts, who has heard any coverage of awards for heroism in the face of the enemy from Iraq?

I should back off and consider this some more. I automatically drift back to the military perspective. Good job, LH.

I should back off and consider this some more

so are you going to post that joe?

I probably will...l am chewing on a tough one right now...I want to tell some of my Dad's legends...he WAS a real hero by any definition of the word. I am working on using that medium to reapproach this article's subject with a calmer mind.

It's not just Iraq; many deserving soldiers through history never received the medals they're due.

In the past I have chronicled my grandfather, who was born in 1900 and lied about his age to get into WWI. He was wounded and left for dead in the Second Battle of the Marne, and yet all the family seems to have are campaign ribbons, not the ton of medals one would normally assume that a veteran of the "war to end all wars". I've never understood why, but I've often wondered if it didn't have something to do with the fact that the Second Battle of the Marne was a tactical embarrassment for us.