The Bunny Dilemma

Insights Anyone?

from JoeUser Forums
A dilemma is a situation requiring a choice between equally undesirable alternatives and I have one right now. Here it is.

For months before we went away on our latest vacation I had a friend of mine beg to take Quincy Dog the next time we needed a dog sitter. So I knew when the time came I could call on her.

Well two weeks before we left she needed help with her animals. She had chickens, a cat, a bunny and a dog. We cared for her animals while she was away. I had to drive about 20 minutes or so to her home and feed and water them and kept her old dog here with me. When she got back, she gladly took Quincy Dog with her while we went on the cruise.

When we got home, I asked her husband at church that morning how my dog behaved. He had a strange look on his face. I knew Quincy did something. I figured he chewed something, peed on something or maybe took a dump in the house. No such luck. It was much worse than that.

After church she came up to me, and I could tell she was struggling with the news. She told me that Quincy killed her rabbit. I was shocked. He's never done any such thing. I've never seen any agression in him at all towards other people or animals. We have a cat. No problem here.

She said they put the rabbit in the house since it was so cold out. It was in a hutch. Like most hutches it had an open front area with wire mesh and the back was made of wood with straw in it. It had a small opening that the bunny would hop in and out of that little room in the back

Well I guess the dog did have a fascination, they said, with this rabbit. They could see quite clearly his interest. He would sit and stare at that cage.

One day they left the dog and the rabbit alone in the house for over seven hours. When they got home the cage was completely destroyed and the rabbit lay dead on the floor. No blood. No open wounds, just dead. They, as well as I, figured he took this as a toy, maybe shook it and when it stopped moving it was no use to him. They could see that it must have taken some time for the dog to get into that cage. He somehow flipped the latch and got in but not before completely destroying the cage. I'm wondering how he could have gotten into that back wooded section. The rabbit must have been in terror hiding out in a back corner. There was only a small opening, way too small for Quincy to get in there. How could he do this?

Well both owners assured me, while they were sick about this when they got home, were now okay. They pleaded with me not to treat Quincy unkindly as they were ok with this now. This is what happened.

At first they cried. They immediately isolated the dog in another part of the house and were wondering how they could continue caring for him. He had been sleeping in their bedroom but not that night. They went to bed sick about this. The next morning, Dan got up, read his bible per usual and something in there spoke to his heart. It had to do with harboring wrath. He shared it with his wife and they both decided they couldn't be angry over this. The dog, part hound, did what was natural and it was partly their fault since they could see Quincy's fascination over this rabbit. Afterall they loved this dog and even looked forward to his visit before all this.

They released him from the isolated room and were amazed at what the dog did next. He has a way of "smiling" when he's in trouble. it's very obvious. Anyhow he had that look on his face as he went around and licked each one of their hands. They have a 10 year old daughter as well. They knew that Quincy was making ammends. They said when they first got home that night before Quincy didn't move a muscle off his bed. Very unusual. It was like he knew what he had done.

Now right there in church when I was told all this, it brought me to tears. I was very upset. I had cared for this rabbit myself two weeks or so before. I was very angry with Quincy and thought my husband is now going to finally kill this dog. I was immediately led to feel that I should not only replace the rabbit but also the cage.

Then I found out that this is no ordinary rabbit, although to me it didn't look unusual. A special breeder has already been contacted. My husband informed me today that he was told the cage cost a thousand dollars. For a bunny hutch?

I didn't tell my husband the news until we got home from church. His first reaction was he felt no responsibility. He said this dog and rabbit were in their care. We were in Florida. How is this our fault? If we lent them our car, and the car rolled down the hill after they parked it, and then damaged their fence, is it our fault or theirs?

So like I always do I went to scripture to find an answer. I found this in Exodus 22:14


"If a man borrows an animal from his neighbor and it is injured or dies while the owner is not present, he must make restitution. But if the owner is with the animal, the borrower will not have to pay. "

While it's not exactly a complete fit, it's pretty close. In this case it's the owner's pet that died. So what to do?

They are expecting us to pay the complete costs, and my husband is saying, it's not our responsibility. I'm feeling like Solomon here and thinking maybe we should split the costs even tho I am not wanting to help fund a thousand dollar bunny cage. I have no idea the cost of the bunny. I'm afraid to ask.

Our Associate Pastor said he was glad it wasn't him making this decision.

So what would you do in this situation? Pay for it completely? Not pay at all? Split the costs not out of responsibility but out of grace and friendship?



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Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's a farce. You are NOT responsible, and I wouldn't pay a dime. They left the dog and the rabbit in the situation they found them in when they got home. Perhaps they didn't foresee it, but then neither would you have.

It's a DOG, and in the end that's what counts. There's no reasonable expectation that a dog won't kill a rabbit if given the chance. Look at it this way. If your dog had gotten a case of the runs and ruined every piece of furniture in their house, would you be responsible?

They were the ones who left the dog and just trusted everything to be okay. It was their inattention, not yours, that was to blame. They took responsibility for OVERSIGHT of the dog, right?
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's a farce. You are NOT responsible, and I wouldn't pay a dime. They left the dog and the rabbit in the situation they found them in when they got home. Perhaps they didn't foresee it, but then neither would you have.


Yup. I'm with Baker. I don't think God gives a hoot or a holler what you do. No need to nitpick at little things like this . . . as Jiminy Cricket would say, "Let your conscience be your guide". If you feel responsible, pay for it. If, like I would feel, you think, "Well, you're just dumb then", then don't pay for anything.

Rabbits are cheap, after all.
Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
tell them to make a claim for the hutch on the household insurance. This is not something that either party could have forseen.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
I dont know what is right or wrong.  But for the sake of friendship, I would try to share the cost with them.  The Hutch can probably be repaired (I use to build the things, so they are not rocket science).
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

I would sit down with them and talk it over.

Tell them why you shouldn't pay.

If after your explanation they still insist, then I'd pay, or offer to build them a new cage.  Money isn't worth the potential problems this could cause in the friendship, their walk, or yours.

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Sounds to me like they're trying to rip you off but good.


Yeah. They sure sound like "real friends".

What in the world was it made of, exotic teak or mahogany or something?


It's made with the bones of heathen donkeys, thus the exorbitant price . . .
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
There's no way in hell that a rabbit hutch would be $1,000. Hell, my dad made his own back in the day and the materials were probably less than $100 when all was said and done.

It's really not your fault...I'm not sure what kind of idiot would leave a dog(carnivore) with a rabbit(potential prey) for 7 hours unsupervised. No matter how sweet a dog seems, it has the capacity to kill....they're at fault here. If the can't take the responsibility of looking after an animal so that it doesn't kill their own pets...then they shouldn't offer to look after it in the first place.

Would you leave a pet rat out when you're taking care of someone else's snake? Same kind of thing.

~Zoo
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

Would you leave a pet rat out when you're taking care of someone else's snake? Same kind of thing.

So that's what happened to Petey!

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
I guess I should amend my answer since I don't know anything about rabbit cages (and LW couldn't find one like you describe). I stick by what I posted above and if they insist you replace it, make sure you do your homework so you get the best deal.

I think its their fault the rabbit died. But your dog did destroy their property. And if an animal of mine, my kids, or even something that belonged to me, intentionally destroyed someone's property, I would pay for it.

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well, the first thing I would have done was SLAP the associate pastor for being less than empatheticl... Then, being the animal lover I am, regardless of how close or distant the relationship was, I'd pay to replace the hutch and rabbit. That's what I would have wanted done were it my animal and cage. Do unto others as you would have do unto yourself. My heart sank when I started reading. I knew exactly where your story was going and here I sit with my dog and rabbit curled up at my feet. Ug it must have been horrible for the bunny owners to see.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Is there going to be another rabbit needing a home? If not, whats the worry over the cost of the hutch?

Your friends admittedly have forgiven the dog, is there some hypocrisy in eluding to restitution?

If I was visiting and broke the hutch, I would feel liable to pay the restitution.

If you borrowed my hammer, and missed the nail whilst hanging a picture on the wall resulting in some broken plaster, am I responsible for your wall?

Your friends not only compensated you for watching their animals, but were enthusiastic over the dog visiting while you went on your cruise. All of the animals in question were under their care, and thus your friends are responsible for the rusult. Should the dog have maimed or killed a prize fighting cock of a neighbors, they would be responsible for replacing the cock, just as they are responsible for replacing their hutch and/or bunny.

What a shame that the issue of money, when all else has been forgiven, can come between a friendship.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
What a shame that the issue of money, when all else has been forgiven, can come between a friendship


Thanks Xythe for your thoughts. Nothing has come between us yet and I hope to resolve this amicably so that won't be an issue. I won't let money be an issue If they insist then I would pay not out of obligation but more out of grace. My husband is thinking we should wait and see what their next step will be. Maybe they will figure it's their fault after all and that will be that....can always hope.

There's just no way to know what happened (without an autopsy) but the fact remains, if they're insisting on $1000 just for the hutch, you're fixin' to get fleeced. A true 'friend' wouldn't take advantage of you that way, so I wouldn't be overly concerned about losing such a 'friend.'


no, we can't know for sure but the circumstantial evidence was pretty much pointing to Quincy. I've seen him do this type of thing with a cage before only it was his own cage. We have been crating him until this summer. He got to the point where he was getting manic in there even drawing his own blood to get out. He's pretty persistent. He managed to get out twice by bending the metal latch. So he now just sleeps on a pet bed in the kitchen and is fine.

Thanks for the pic of the hutch LW...the hutch in question was not nearly as elaborate. It was a very normal looking hutch that you would expect to have.

So far nothing has been insisted on. So I think we'll wait and see what they come up with and go from there.

That's what I would have wanted done were it my animal and cage. Do unto others as you would have do unto yourself.


well I agree with the golden rule. That's just it. If it were me, I would blame myself. I would never have expected they pay for this and would have felt it was my responsibility. I've actually been in situations where I just ate it myself. My feeling is if they don't feel led to help me out, then that would be the last time I got myself in a situation like this with this particular person again. You know the saying, "food me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

tell them to make a claim for the hutch on the household insurance.


I didn't even think about this. This might be something to look into unless their deductable is more than the cage. But I will call my agent today and see what he says.

Thanks guys for all your very good comments. I'll keep you posted as events progress
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top

For that matter, if dog and bunny had formed a bond, it's entirely possible that Quincy detected the rabbit was in distress and was frantically chewing up the hutch in a rescue effort, only to find a dead bunny inside, which he then carried out in an attempt to revive it or initiate play.


Buwhahahaha.

Sorry...all I could see here is a dog trying to give a rabbit mouth to mouth!

And I know its not funny...but a heart attack? That is kinda making me chuckle. Course it could be true. I had a cat once that died of heart complications.

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Do a google search on 'rabbit heart attack' and you'll see that as chuckle-inspiring as it might be, it's not uncommon at all!


hahahaha. You'd think as much as rabbits like to well, pro create....heh, their hearts would be much stronger than that!

My husband and I used to go hunting rabbits with his dad's dogs (not his precious rabbit dogs, just the normal yard ones). We'd chop them rabbits in half and feed them to the dogs. They ate them bones and all. Sometimes I don't even think they chewed.

Maybe Quincey wanted a little piece of that...after first trying to do CPR of course.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Maybe the dog saw the rabbit as usurping the Christian holiday of Easter. Was it also prone to attack people in Satan su, ur... Santa suits?
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Maybe the dog saw the rabbit as usurping the Christian holiday of Easter. Was it also prone to attack people in Satan su, ur... Santa suits?


hahahaha so now I'm thinking.......Quincy the Christian Dog?

They can be frightened to death, which is what I think must have happened to the rabbit I shot and (obviously) missed. When we skinned it there was no physical damage, no other shot pellets in the meat....nothing but that one bb-sized hole in the top part of his ear.


that's what I was thinking when I first read what you said earlier. I think they are so timid they scare very easily even to the point of being scared to death. Who knows maybe that's where the phrase comes from in the first place....wouldn't be surprised.

I'm kind of wondering why Quincy didn't make a meal of the rabbit tho. It looks like after the life was gone out of it, he was done with it. Being a hound maybe that's all he was supposed to do. Fetch it, and drop it. I don't know but it's not something that was taught him. He came by it naturally.

I did call my insurance agent. She said that it probably isn't covered because it's considered property damage not liability. If a dog wrecks furniture, drapes, doors or anything it's not covered. If a person gets bit by a dog then it's covered and considered a liability. I said, :he bit somebody else's rabbit to the point he killed it." But I'm thinking they are going to come back and still say it's property damage even if the property is alive and breathing. She's going to call me back tomorrow after checking for sure.



Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
I agree you're not liable, KFC, but I would say because of your husband's occupation, it might be good to make reasonable amends. Here's what I suggest:

Find out what breed the rabbit was. Contact breeders of your own and find out their costs. If the family has any expectations of you paying for it, YOU should be able to do the shopping, not them.

Find out a little bit about the hutch. There's no way it was a $1,000 hutch. If your husband can do it, offer to build it, or, barring that, pay your local high school's wood shop to take on the project, if they will. Personally I would try to make it a little nicer than the original but not so nice that I would get fleeced.

I don't see a small claims court judge siding with your friends, frankly, but if you make these gestures towards restoring what was lost and they refuse, you're covered. You also have a defense against your reputation, should the issue ever arise.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
(or, then, of course, there's the "Fatal Attraction" approach...dig up the bunny 'n put it in a stew pot).

Sorry, that scene still has me disturbed. Methinks I need therapy.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
They are expecting us to pay the complete costs, and my husband is saying, it's not our responsibility. I'm feeling like Solomon here and thinking maybe we should split the costs even tho I am not wanting to help fund a thousand dollar bunny cage. I have no idea the cost of the bunny. I'm afraid to ask.


Sorry, but I have to interject yet again. In your friends' Bible studies, did they somehow miss the verses where it talks about not suing fellow Christians?
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
In your friends' Bible studies, did they somehow miss the verses where it talks about not suing fellow Christians?


oh oh! They're not reading carefully enough . . .

I don't see a small claims court judge siding with your friends


Judge Judy would have a heyday with this case . . . just think of all the thinly-veiled epithets she'd hurl at the friends!
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't see a small claims court judge siding with your friends,


That's exactly what my husband said. He said no way would they hold us responsible since we weren't even remotely close and they were the ones taking responsiblilty.

or, then, of course, there's the "Fatal Attraction" approach...dig up the bunny 'n put it in a stew pot).


ewwwwwww that's a bit much

Sorry, that scene still has me disturbed. Methinks I need therapy.


methinks so to....heheheh

did they somehow miss the verses where it talks about not suing fellow Christians?


honestly? I don't think we'd ever see that happening. That's my gut feeling anyhow. They seem to want to do the right thing. I think they just think the right thing without really thinking too deeply is that we're responsiblile cuz it was our dog.

just think of all the thinly-veiled epithets she'd hurl at the friends!


you mean like "bunny wise and hound foolish"?

hahahahah I crack myself up.......

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top

So what happened?

I know you handled it well.  You are a classy woman my friend.  And I am blessed to know you.

Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ok the latest is I received an email from the Mrs with a price of $25 for the bunny and $168.00 for the cage...well under the $1000 we heard thru the grapevine. Let that be a lesson to us all. She has slips and expects us to make full payment although it hasn't really been said.

While we are prepared to do so for the sake of the friendship, we still feel that we should let them know what we are thinking rather than just sweeping all under the rug. So husband talked with husband and they decided we will all four meet..most likely tomorrow.

The first question asked of the husband from my husband is "what do YOU want us to do or think we should do?" His answer was "I don't know." So that's when my husband suggested we meet to discuss it.

I'm thinking grace without truth is hypocricy and truth without grace is cold. I'm still leaning myself, if ok with them, of sharing the burden with us each paying half. If she bristles with that, we will pay all of it and let God deal with them. Our friendship will stay intact.






Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm thinking grace without truth is hypocricy and truth without grace is cold. I'm still leaning myself, if ok with them, of sharing the burden with us each paying half. If she bristles with that, we will pay all of it and let God deal with them. Our friendship will stay intact.


  

Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
Thanks T.

The latest as of today....they have decided since it was mostly the whole front that was destroyed to see about just replacing the front. The manufacturer has already been called and they are checking into it. We asked again what we should/can do for them and they said to wait until they hear back....

I also mentioned the borrowing of another's animals was also covered in scripture and thought they might like to look into that as well. She laughed and said ..."it figures, if anybody could find scripture on that you can." They are very receptive to scripture so I thought they may want to know. So they went out the door saying they would look it up. All is well, friendship still intact which is the most important of all.