Today's Poor Richer than 1971's Middle Class

Poverty in America is a misnomer.  What they talk about when someone says poverty is the poor.  And since the poor are defined by a bell curve, there is no way to eliminate them, no matter how much money you pour at the problem.

Take a walk through the shanti towns of Mumbai and see what poor is....

This is one of the things that really chap my lips, the so called poor of america live like kings and queens compared to how the poor of 2/3rds of the worlds poor live.

the so called poor of america live like kings and queens

It has a great deal to do with people's financial management decisions. Thing is when the government is the one supplying their incomes, the government should probably also be making al their day-to-day decisons too. Send them groceries each month instead of food money. This way it doesn't get spent on 5 dollar 7-11 sandwiches and lotto tickets.

 

There simply is no real critical thought being taught to Americans at any level.

30 million Americans are so poor they don't eat every day. That's a fact. I didn't see any facts in your article.

30 million Americans are so poor they don't eat every day. That's a fact. I didn't see any facts in your article.

I dont see any facts in your statement either.

30 million Americans are so poor they don't eat every day. That's a fact.

No thats called shooting your mouth off without proving your assertion. This sounds very much liek something a high schooler heard from a leftist teacher without much regard for the actual facts involved.

- You claim that 10% of America doesn't eat everyday. US Population figures from here. This would of course require them to not only earn less than $1 a day but also to stay away from the free food centers (national charity, churches, and municipal welfare) in nearly every city and town across the nation.

Then you don't prove anything. That's why we don't give you any credence.

1 in 10? I think not. Bring a good source or go home and bitch to your less critically thinking circle of friends. Did you even know the population of the U.S. when you posted? I doubt it.

"30 million Americans are so poor they don't eat every day. That's a fact."

lmao. That's 10% of our population. You are saying one in ten poeple in America are so poor they don't eat every day. Oddly, we have the fattest poor in the world, so fat that their health care costs are astronomical.

Have you ever seen images of people who are starving to death? The only people I have seen that looked like that in America were rich fashion models. I come from the poorest area in the nation, and I'm telling you that your 1 in 10 statistic is full of crap even there...

I love the way some people throw out these obviously laughable "facts" without anything at all to back them up except "because I said so". And they wonder why they are referred to as loons.

A good factual report on Hunger in America can be found at Link (America's Second Harvest.)

It is 306 pages, so be advised, but it will address just about every question that you have.

The study is based on interviews with almost 53,000 Americans. About 25 million Americans received emergency food assistance, about 4.5 million week. Most needed only short term assistance. Most experienced a dilemma where they had to choose between food and other necessities, most often medical care. Children made up about 1/3 of the group.

We have plenty of food in America, plenty available to feed the hungry. The problem is that the food is not always where the need is. I live in an affluent town. My Sunday School class used to volunteer at Food Gathers, an agency that helps address hunger in America. They had so many volunteers and so much food, they asked us not to come any more. But 35 miles away is Detroit. How do we get the food to the hungry?

Hunger in America, poverty in America isn't as bad as in say Somalia. But it still exists.

That's a long way from 30M going without eating.

"That's a long way from 30M going without eating."

Agreed. And there is a big difference between being at a point where you miss a meal or even several meals and the conditions of poverty in most places in the world. I tried to be pretty careful to point out those differences. As is often the case, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

And I understand Greywar's point, too. "Our poor can shop for groceries at 7-11, talk to their relatives on cell-phones that are so cheap as to be virtually free, buy lottery tickets by the dozen, or save that money for enough malt liquor to choke a horse." You go into any poor neighborhood in urban America and you will find someplace selling liquor and cigarettes and doing a thriving business.

But that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of people that don't drink, don't smoke, work at least one job and are still one doctor's bill, one prescription, one missed paycheck away from a soup line. Look at the statistics ( it was your call, MasonM, for facts that got me to post here in the first place) and even if its only 10 million people, instead of 25 million, we still have a problem. And if say 3 million of them are kids, well that is a problem that merits fixing.

Look at the statistics ( it was your call, MasonM, for facts that got me to post here in the first place) and even if its only 10 million people, instead of 25 million, we still have a problem. And if say 3 million of them are kids, well that is a problem that merits fixing.

Extrapolated reports don't really present real facts though. 53,000 hand picked interviews do not millions make. Sorry, I just do not buy it.

There are food banks in virtually every population center in this country. Unemployment is very low. I believe that the numbers are artificially inflated. I have been in and lived in some of the poorest places in this country in some pretty lean times and everyone managed to eat every day. They may not have eaten well, I can recall eating beans three times a day at some times, but we ate.

Sure, not everyone eats steak every day, but I do not see a significant percentage (if any) of the population starving to death in this country.

You claim that 10% of America doesn't eat everyday. US Population figures from here. This would of course require them to not only earn less than $1 a day but also to stay away from the free food centers (national charity, churches, and municipal welfare) in nearly every city and town across the nation.

or public schools, for that matter. Most public schools have breakfast AND lunch programs.

As LW has asked repeatedly, without ever receiving an answer, if the poor are starving in the streets in America, WHERE ARE THE BODIES? The lack of intakes in ER's of severely malnourished individuals (to the level that 30 million people starving would provide), or emaciated bodies in the city morgues would indicate that this "statistic" is a bold faced lie.

Being where I am from, I have seen people who have accepted "emergency" food funds, food stamps, etc. The rate of obesity, even in their kids, doesn't seem effected, and they seem to be able to afford cartons of cigarettes just fine...

Accept what you want, I cited my source, feel free to cite contrary reports.

MasonM, the report included page after page on their methods. "53,000 hand picked interviews" is not an accurate representation, they supported their numbers based on a lot of data collected from numerous sources, but I am not going to try to persuade you as the accuracy of it.

We began with "I don't see any facts" and I replied by citing a report. In my estimation we have now moved into that wonderful realm of cognitive dissonance, where your personal experiences are going to outweigh whatever I offer. Okay. There is no hunger in America, reports to the contrary, because you saw a fat man the other day. I am ready to move on.

The target seems to have moved form "going without eating" to "starving to death." I thought that I spoke to that twice already, hunger in America is nowhere near as bad as in other places. Let me ask, does the proximate cause of death need to be starvation, or can malnutrition just be a contributing factor? There is an old "joke" in the newspaper business to the point that when one can't determine the cause of death, it is always safe to say that the heart stopped.

If an 80-year old woman dies who hasn't been eating, say for example, what does the coroner put down as the cause of death?

A report on hunger and obesity co-existing side by side can be found at Link The source is an article published in The Journal of Nutrition and written by Eileen Kennedy DSc, RD, dean of the Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy at Tufts University.

BakerStreet, the largest groups identified as living in poverty are the elderly, particularly shut-ins, and children. Some additional "facts" that you can accept or not:

1) In 1994 the Urban Institute in Washington DC estimated that one out of 6 elderly people in the U.S. has an inadequate diet.
2) In the U.S. hunger and race are related. In 1991 46% of African-American children were chronically hungry, and 40% of Latino children were chronically hungry compared to 16% of white children.
3) The infant mortality rate is closely linked to inadequate nutrition among pregnant women. The U.S. ranks 23rd among industrial nations in infant mortality. African-American infants die at nearly twice the rate of white infants.
4) One out of every eight children under the age of twelve in the U.S. goes to bed hungry every night.

I grabbed those from Link but I am pretty sure that the original source is the World Health Organization.

The difference I was pointing out, Kupe, is that a lot of that is by negligence or choice. It isn't going to matter how strong the economy is or what social services are available if your single mother is a meth whore and doesn't care about you.

There is absolutely, ZERO need for any child in America to go to bed hungry. None. One in eight children, are you seriously believing that? We qualified for BOTH food stamps AND WIC when we had our daughter, and we both had decent jobs, and we could afford tons of extras in our lives.

I'm betting cash that my diet would qualify as inadequate. Is it because I am "poor"? Nope, it is because I have little in the way of self control regarding junk food and I don't eat the way I should. The elderly have many, many options that they simply don't ever look into. Is it society's fault when they complacently starve themselves without trying to find out how they could avoid it?

If you want to talk about "poverty" in terms of the society it finds itself in, you have to address the fact that many, many people in the US could simply change their behavior and choose not to be poor, or seek help for their problems. That "fact" is conveniently left out of the lists of "facts" you find on poverty.

We have plenty of food in America, plenty available to feed the hungry. The problem is that the food is not always where the need is. I live in an affluent town. My Sunday School class used to volunteer at Food Gathers, an agency that helps address hunger in America. They had so many volunteers and so much food, they asked us not to come any more. But 35 miles away is Detroit. How do we get the food to the hungry?

There are ways to do it, but many of the people with the means won't do it.

I have said repeatedly that the best "fix" WalMart could give its sagging PR would be to partner with Second Harvest in helping the hungry. As it is, WalMart probably leads the world in gross tonnage of food needlessly dumped. I worked at WalMart enough to have dumped literally tons of food into the dumpster that the store management refused to give to the food banks. If WalMart would make such a partnership, their incredible distribution system could provide a ready fix to how to get the food where its most needed.

I'm not saying we shouldn't address the legitimate needs of 10 million, or even of one. As individuals, I feel it is our moral responsibility to help the less fortunate (note: OUR moral responsibility, NOT the government's). But we shouldn't beat ourselves over the head because we have a poverty "problem" in America when the majority of other countries would LOVE to have the affluence we have, even among the poor. My point was made because in so many countries, poor DOES mean starving...because there ARE people dying in some of these nations. The lack of those in America says that we're actually doing something RIGHT!

I would like to see how many illegal alien's kids go to bed hungry. People are killing themselves to come here, and working their butts off once they get here. The "facts" of poverty don't take into account child ABUSE and neglect, and self-abuse on the part of adults.

If they did, I believe devoutly those numbers would be infinitesimal. If people neglect themselves and their kids, the problem isn't poverty, is it?

There are ways to do it, but many of the people with the means won't do it.

Larry has some good points but one that is left unanswered in the study is in fact the case of the folks who simply won't be helped no matter what. I nice example from right here in town. There is a free shelter where anyone can go to get food, water, and shelter for as long as they need it. they do have one rule though : no drugs or alchohol. If you look high or drunk you can't be there. The result? Dozens of people who simply won't abide by that rule. Are they "poor" or "starving" due to a lack of aid? Nope.... they just refuse to behave. There are tons of these folks, the WIC moms who sell there WIC food for cigarette money or to satify whatever other comfort they crave.

This is my point. it isn't a lack of aid or availability of food or money that keeps the poor porr it is bad choices. Someone who doesn't drink, or do drugs or whathave you may end up "poor" for a while, say 6 months or a year where they are really only able to scrape by with assistance. Generally though that person will recover qickly as most of the people in the Kupe's study did. It is the remainder who are perpetually on assistance that have the bad habits.

We began with "I don't see any facts" and I replied by citing a report.

A report that in no way supports the claim to which we are objecting:

30 million Americans are so poor they don't eat every day. That's a fact.

I am not arguing that there are no hungry people in this country. I am, however, arguing that the problem is nowhere near as extreme as the absurd statement quoted above tries to state as a fact.

Let them eat cake!

Let them eat cake!

Yep, thats relevant, we are treating our people like the dead and dying of the French Revolution... oh wait, it isn't even in the same friggin universe.

Yep, thats relevant, we are treating our people like the dead and dying of the French Revolution... oh wait, it isn't even in the same friggin universe.

lol

"Let them do crack" would be more appropriate...