moo3 & galciv a difference in class

E-gads. And they wonder why the MOO forums have become such an ugly place.

Sigh. I must confess that I am rather surprised.

I am also a bit surprised that Sencho would retroactively go back and edit his post to make it somewhat less inflammatory. This has the affect of the reader coming to the conclusion that I am asserting that Sench can't give his view.

His original post was much harsher. Even his edited one (where he adds some after the fact nice comments about Galciv) has some remarks in it that surprised me.

Jezz. I'm sure we all realize they are the minority of the great many that put their money down for MOO3. I have noticed a moderator do that on another publishers forum, about a year ago. Edit past comments on the fly that is. Leaves you without the right of equal speech. Darn, blows my theory that life was fair.

~SDC~

Heh. Brad, remind me not to ever get into a flame war with you. Without being even slightly impolite you were able to let them hang themselves with their own words.

Para-phrasing:

QS: You seemed to have thought that we would extend professional courtesy to you here because you had extended professional courtesy to our game on your board. I for one hope that no one above Sencho does that.

FB: You are correct. I assumed a certain level of professionalism by those associated with the game (MOO). I apologize for my erroneous assumption.

--

You know Brad, if it had been me I would have added that their level of 'professionalism' runs through every aspect of their game.

No, I don't think that would be fair to say. I do indeed have an issue with one forum moderator on an IG forum. But that doesn't reflect on the game itself.

Forum moderators can be anyone from fans of the game to employees. As a strategy gamer, I want to see all these games succeed.

My point in that discussion, now largely destroyed with all the post-editing done, is that moderators and other people in positions of authority set the tone for the site.

One person attached to the game made the erroneous assumption that the reason we don't criticize MOO 3 here is purely out of professional courtesy. No, the reason we don't criticize MOO 3 here is because we want this forum to be about Galactic Civilizations. If we began to encourage people to put down other games, it detracts from discussion of this game. Additionally, it encourages people who like the game being trashed to defend that game and pretty soon you have flame wars.

Most people who visit a given game forum are there to find the answer to a question. They aren't there to get sucked into some sort of soap opera on game vs. game.

Professional courtesy is a good thing IMO. But the reason to not criticize competing products isn't about professional courtesy as much as it is about trying to create a friendly, respectul atmosphere where people can feel comfortable giving their opinions as well as setting an example of the way we would like people to treat one another.

Yeah I agree the moderator showed pretty bad form. Though IMO Frogboy making an exit in that arguement might be wise before the gloves really come off

some of folks at the moo forum appear to have the attitude that there is only one TB space game that can be played. NOBODY could possibly want to play both Moo and GalCiv, right? What the hell's wrong with playing any and all games that you like? There is no ONE PERFECT be all game for everyone.
I for one, kinda of like Moo3 though its not what i expected or wanted, and it needs patches badly.I think I will love GalCiv. Once I get over the initila rush of GalCiv (playing it non stop for awhile) I am sure I will go back and play Moo from time to time, just like I play my other games from time to time. Who buys one game and plays it exclusively forever? Who buys and plays one game at a time...playing one for months or longer till sick of it then buys a new game and plays that until sick of it etc etc. Doesnt everybody mix it up and rotate a little?
Sounds to me like extreme defensiveness on their part. They have had to put up with a lot of assholes who flamed the game...you know what I mean too, not just expressing opinions as to what was wrong with it, but tearing their hair out, beating the breasts and forecasting the end of life on earth as we know it. BUT, having gone thru that, they should have more class and professionalism lest they be thought of with the same contempt as the "get a life" whiners.

Play games. Play all games. Play your favorite games even more.
The game is the life.

Methinsk any new Galciv Forum shuld not have an Edited option
(Or is a post is edited, then a link back to the unedited version is included) will mean that people can make edited posts for things like spelling etc but not substantially change their posts and then use that to their advantage (as sencho did).

But on the whole, editing your first post which is the cause of the whole debate is a tad immature.

OK, I will jump in and risk being misunderstood.

As a side note: I do not own MOO3 but I have pre-ordered GalCiv.

Sencho, obviously could have said things in a better way but come on he did come back and apologize for his lack of tact and the way he slanted his original comment (Which I never saw).

If he wanted as moderator he could simply delete the entire post and that would be it. No more pointing a finger at you said this because the post would be totally missing.

The reality is that people will say things about any title that it may not really deserve. That is life. Sencho, and Brad had their say and that should be that.

Imo, it should have been done via email or Privet Messages and not in a public form as it makes no one look good.

Let it go and let's just enjoy the Game.

Toothy

EDIT: Privet Messages = Private Messages

An Edit feature would be nice though!

Toothy

All I can say is that I am confident that anyone who is even remotely objective can read through what was said and will come to a very different view than what Sencho and his friends came to.

~SDC~

advice to Brad:

as a moderator of a website & forum that has trolls show up from a "competitor", my advice to you is simply to remain above the fray.

I'm saying this because I see real similarities with my situtation regarding how you believe a forum should work, and how moderators in another forum freely abuse their position.

Just don't go over here. They are not worth your time. When you wrestle in the mud with pigs, you get dirty and the pigs love it.

Frogboy,

I was not drawing any conclusions (I know you might not have meant me, but it came after my post so I may be misunderstanding you) but only thought it is always better to take the high ground. This is true on both sides.

I do not know either one of you and had no idea till I read the posted link that Sencho was moderator and you are Draginol.

No offense intended.

Toothy

I like the idea of editing posts...sure would help me as I have a defective keyboard. I type in correctly but at times, it comes out mispelled. I have got to get a new one!

The game is the life.

No problem, no offense taken. Anyway, I won't be going back over there. There are other sources for MOO 3 info that are much friendlier.

~SDC~

This episode is a fascinating psychological study. To the non zealot it is pretty clear that 'sencho' and his cohorts are out of line. I don't think brad could have been any milder or more professional in his responses. They seem to have a blind spot to their own despicable behavior.
The loathsome attitude you see in that post by the people there permeates the entire forum. Its like QS put the most rabid fanboyz in charge and let them run wild. The place reaks of paranoia and failure. It's sad. They don't see that most of us wanted moo 3 to be a great game. We aren't happy it sucks.

Don't you just love it when unreasonable people say they can't argue with you cause you're unreasonable. The first post by Sencho was the unprofessional one. Ahh, they are the fools, let them wonder around in their proverbial backwater of stupidity.

Someday the MOO3 die-hards will have to acknowledge that the game is the "Phantom Menance" of 4X games... such expectations... such disappointments...

You have to understand that some people get validation from having a position of prestige or authority.

When you criticize or question MOO3, you are questioning the legitimacy of the people who get their validation from MOO3. Who would even know or care who Sencho was if he wasn't a moderator of the MOO3 forums?

Contrast that with the mods at OrionSection.com. Like everyone else, they *wanted* MOO3 to be a success. But when it obviously wasn't, they stated so publicly and have now shifted gears to also covering GalCiv. They are trying to make lemonade out of the lemon.

I think the modding on that forum has been going downhill for a while. This episode just puts it into focus.

All I can say is, gaming is supposed to be all about fun. Right? While there is always going to be a bit of competition and some "woof-woof" arm raising, some of the MOO forums got a little hostile for my taste.

The forum here seems much more humble and polite. I like it that way!

... humble and polite... so far. I am a bit afraid that it will not last forever. I would be glad... very glad... if wrong. :notsure:

Woops; just started a topic on this, not seeing this...

As the old saying goes:

"Never argue with a fool. Someone watching may not be able to tell the difference." LOL

I'd advise people who've seen the thread in question on the MOO3 board to take two things to heart:

Inflammatory remarks should be, at minimum, given a proper context, or you're going to offend people. And offending people is a bad thing (and downright rude).

When someone peeves you, talk to them privately first... when they feel they have to save face, it just makes the whole thing a lot more trouble than it should be.