Why is a nigger a nigger?

JUst to give a little background Serenity,  I grew up in an almost entirely caucasian town.  I think there was a couple of Native Americans there,  certainly no Black people and I doubt if there was Hispanics either.

I never even saw a person of color until I was 22,  when I moved to St. Paul.  I was horrified to hear people yelling insults to others,  the hatred clear in their voices.  I developed my own prejudice,  I became prejudiced those that hated others!  I couldn't see the irony in that at the time.

I decided that a "nigger" was anyone who behaved in a manner that was rude, obnoxious, and any other adjectives that one can think up!  It distresses me greatly when anyone looks down their nose on another of a different race and thinks and acts like they're better than the other.  The truth, imho,  is that we're all created equal, ( and have equal value)  and what we do with our God-given gifts is up to us.  We're individuals, period. 

Regardless of origin or original meaning, the word as it is used in today's language is derogatory and intended as such. I don't care for the word or it's use regardless of whether it's coming from a white person or black. But then it's not my place to tell others what language they should or shouldn't use. Their choice of words says a great deal more about them than anyone to whom they may be referring.

I would imagine that derogatory words have existed since the earliest use of language. I think it's part and parcel of our inherently tribal nature.

It's a little uncomfortable for me to even talk about the word in the company of a black person, let alone a black lady. I consider the word more than a bit distasteful, as it can be very offending. I will say however, that  I did use the word on Dharmas blog yesterday, in order to set the stage for an article I wanted to do on this very subject, but since you have written one, I feel a bit better about it.

Anyway, I don't think I could explain it any better that Randell Hennedy, a professor of law at Harvard, who happens to be a black man. He has written a book entitled "nigger", on the subject that I myself have ordered yesterday, that from the reviews and what not that I have seen is very very good.

It's a little uncomfortable for me to even talk about the word in the company of a black person, let alone a black lady

No offense to you, but this always amuses me a little bit when I see it. Yes, it can be an unpleasant subject but why be any more uncomfortable discussing it with a black person than a white one?

Some of the best conversations I have had on this subject, or racism in general, have been over a few beers with a black person. I've learned a great deal from having conversations with black people on this topic and others like it. They have a perspective on the word and it's usage that I, as basically a white person (even if not purely so) will never have.

Personally I feel that the fastest way to put an end to all of this racial hatred and discomfort is open, honest, and direct discussion without all of the political overtones and agendas of the Jacksons, Sharptons, and Byrds of the world. It's going to be the people, not the professors, politicians, or self-appointed civil leaders who finally put an end to it.

Ok, this is me shutting the hell up now.

To: foreverserenity

There are no niggers in Jamaica. There are no niggers in the Carribean. There are no niggers in the West Indies. Nor, indeed, are there any niggers in Africa. I grew up in one of the most multicultural nations on Earth: Great Britain. I went to school surrounded by Jamaicans and West Indians and could, at one time, talk with the meanest Jamaican accent you ever heard, indistinguishable from a native. I listened to bootleg reggae imported direct from the Island. I ate Jerked Chicken before I kew what it was: just as I ate Indian spices, poppadums, nan bread, and other Indian foods before I knew what they were.

My mother, throughought her life, has 'known' (in the Biblical sense) more than one Black man - and neither I nor my sister ever had a problem with her doing so. But then, you see, she never had any relations with a nigger. I am not well travelled in Europe - but I'd be willing to swear that there is not a single nigger anywhere throughout the length and breadth of the Continent, notwithstanding the presence there of many persons whose skins are black.

No, and to her lasting shame may it be said, the nigger is an American animal, and an American animal purely. I never met one before I came here, and until that time I would have reacted with proper European outrage at the use of the word - and did so, in the many conversations I had with Sabrina on the topic of race before I ever came here.

So. What's a nigger? The nigger is characterized by an unswervingly foul use of language - motherfucker dis and motherfucker dat; the nigger is characterized by an unswervingly allergic reaction to employment, and an unswerving addiction to state-provided benefits of all kinds. The nigger is characterized by an uncompromising sense of victimhood and entitlement - the world, and history, owes him, simply because he was born a nigger. The nigger is always sullen, always resentful, and always looking for a way to make a buck off someone elses's back - and is entirely unapologetic about this because of his pervasive sense of entitlement and resentment. His behaviour in public is always loud, crass, crude, and utterly uncaring of others and their sensibility.

Is the nigger always black? No. Just nine times out of ten. There are White, Brown, Yellow, and Red niggers - and their behaviour and attitudes are always the same, whatever the color of their skins. Are there hard-working, decent, worthy Black men and women in America? Yes there are. I've met some of them. But the majority of American niggers are Black- and niggers are unique to American civilization. They exist nowhere else, and exemplify absolutely the very worst traits of the American character.

Certainly, there are loud, abrasive, aggresive, resentful, sullen character-types in every ethnicity, those who believe that the world owes them something and are willing to blame everyone and everything else for their personal shortcomings and failures. And they are not niggers. Because the nigger is nothing more than these attributes and character traits and never progresses beyond them because he does not wish to. It's this wilfull eager resentment; this waiting with baited breath for an opportunity to rip someone off, that characterizes the American nigger, an attribute of human persons I never experienced till I came here.

America's great racial crime was not the enslavement and exploitation of the African and West Indian Black: it was the creation of the American Nigger - a creature which has rights without obligations, privilege without duty, entitlement without responsibility. A creature without civility, incapable of recognising the necessity for good manners, and incapable of realising that there are others in the world besides himself.

Such character traits are not confined to the American Black, which is why I say that not every American Black is a nigger. But I will say this: whatever the color of his skin, every nigger is an American.

No offense to you, but this always amuses me a little bit when I see it. Yes, it can be an unpleasant subject but why be any more uncomfortable discussing it with a black person than a white one?

I know what your saying Mason. The way I see it, the original meaning of the word is a vicious racial slur against black people, and even though time has watered down the meaning, I never really would want to offend anybody; at least under this type of forum. The way I see it, if I use that word in the presents of a black person, I expect it's time to throw-down. Besides, no matter what, coming from a white guy; well, it's just not a very classy word to use around women.

Some of the best conversations I have had on this subject, or racism in general, have been over a few beers with a black person. I've learned a great deal from having conversations with black people on this topic and others like it. They have a perspective on the word and it's usage that I, as basically a white person (even if not purely so) will never have.

I hear you man, same with me. It's just me, it makes me uncomfortable because of the way I think mostly.

I ate Jerked Chicken

No offence here, but not knowing what this is, it leaves quite a bit open to the imagination

America's great racial crime was not the enslavement and exploitation of the African and West Indian Black: it was the creation of the American Nigger - a creature which has rights without obligations, privilege without duty, entitlement without responsibility. A creature without civility, incapable of recognising the necessity for good manners, and incapable of realising that there are others in the world besides himself.

I hope you read the essay.

The way I see it, if I use that word in the presents of a black person, I expect it's time to throw-down. Besides, no matter what, coming from a white guy; well, it's just not a very classy word to use around women.

I understand what you're saying and I suspect a touch of the "white guilt" thing there, but remember this: the stench won't clear from the room until somebody opens a window.

We're individuals, period.

Yes we are, each of us. What we do think of ourselves and others though is the key to how we behave and react.

JUst to give a little background Serenity, I grew up in an almost entirely caucasian town. I think there was a couple of Native Americans there, certainly no Black people and I doubt if there was Hispanics either.

That's amazing Trudy, but not surprising to hear because I'm aware that there are still many people who have never personally met someone of another race, and a person of color.

I decided that a "nigger" was anyone who behaved in a manner that was rude, obnoxious, and any other adjectives that one can think up!

This is what I'm trying to clarify Trudy. How did you arrive at that definition? Why is that person just someone who has a disgusting attitude and very bad behaviour? The same terminology that is used to describe a black person, the same manner of thinking of what they are?

I would imagine that derogatory words have existed since the earliest use of language. I think it's part and parcel of our inherently tribal nature.

Abosolutely M, deregatory forms of words have been around for a long time, since speech no doubt. I would garner a guess even back in the days of cave dwellers. They must have been particular about each other.

I will say however, that I did use the word on Dharmas blog yesterday, in order to set the stage for an article I wanted to do on this very subject, but since you have written one, I feel a bit better about it.

I consider myself to be pretty open-minded and would not take whatever you or anyone else say personally if we are in a discussion to express our point of views and enlighten each other Xythe.

I don't think I could explain it any better that Randell Hennedy, a professor of law at Harvard, who happens to be a black man. He has written a book entitled "nigger", on the subject that I myself have ordered yesterday, that from the reviews and what not that I have seen is very very good.

Yes, I am aware of Randell Hennedy and have heard about his book. I've actually planned on getting a hold of it myself. That's great Xythe!

No offense to you, but this always amuses me a little bit when I see it. Yes, it can be an unpleasant subject but why be any more uncomfortable discussing it with a black person than a white one?

Good point M, a very good one. But I might step on the line here and say, it's assumed that most whites will probably think the same way as the speaker, feel the same way about a black person, thus, that person would not be offended. While with a black person, it's a touchy subject matter because of the history.

Some of the best conversations I have had on this subject, or racism in general, have been over a few beers with a black person. I've learned a great deal from having conversations with black people on this topic and others like it. They have a perspective on the word and it's usage that I, as basically a white person (even if not purely so) will never have.

I would have loved to have been in on those conversations. I'm glad you were able to have that type of discussion.

I think that if all blacks, especially the younger generation who are out there running around with the hatred and displacement they feel in their hearts, in very much the same way a person who is white, or of other ethnicity would feel displaced and hate as well, could have conversations like these, how much better off we would all be.

Personally I feel that the fastest way to put an end to all of this racial hatred and discomfort is open, honest, and direct discussion without all of the political overtones and agendas of the Jacksons, Sharptons, and Byrds of the world. It's going to be the people, not the professors, politicians, or self-appointed civil leaders who finally put an end to it.

Aha, I just said the same thing above without even reading this! Nicely said M, and no don't shut up now, you're on a roll! Great comment!

I grew up in a white bread, small Ohio town. We had no black people in town when I was little. I went to school with a couple of Filipino kids and Indian (as in from India)kids but it was 99% white. My dad was Mexican but he didn't look Mexican and neither do I. My parents never used that word (at least not in front of me)and I don't either. I don't understand why black people call each other that if it is so offensive to them. Is it supposed to take the sting out of it if they use it themselves? I don't really get it.

I gave his Empness an insightful rating for his comment - he said everything I wanted to say and did so far more eloquently than I could ever have....and that's why I love him and his fire-headed wife. His opinion and mine are the same, in case you were wondering.

I agree with his wife's opinion of you, too...and I'm sorry if anything I've said has offended or made you feel uncomfortable in any way.

There are no niggers in Jamaica. There are no niggers in the Carribean. There are no niggers in the West Indies. Nor, indeed, are there any niggers in Africa.

No there wasn't, not when I was growing up. As I said the term, the word didn't exist for us. So I agree.

I went to school surrounded by Jamaicans and West Indians and could, at one time, talk with the meanest Jamaican accent you ever heard, indistinguishable from a native.

Man you must have been something back in the day nuh?!

I listened to bootleg reggae imported direct from the Island. I ate Jerked Chicken before I kew what it was: just as I ate Indian spices, poppadums, nan bread, and other Indian foods before I knew what they were.

Haha, a yardy you were for sure! I too enjoyed the delicacies of Indian foods from my friends and neighbors at the time. It was great! It was great sharing the culture of the different Indians from the country itself as well as the Indians who were Jamaicans, Trinidadians, Guyanese, we were quite a cultural mix back then!

the nigger is an American animal, and an American animal purely

So. What's a nigger? The nigger is characterized by an unswervingly foul use of language - motherfucker dis and motherfucker dat; the nigger is characterized by an unswervingly allergic reaction to employment, and an unswerving addiction to state-provided benefits of all kinds. The nigger is characterized by an uncompromising sense of victimhood and entitlement - the world, and history, owes him, simply because he was born a nigger. The nigger is always sullen, always resentful, and always looking for a way to make a buck off someone elses's back - and is entirely unapologetic about this because of his pervasive sense of entitlement and resentment. His behaviour in public is always loud, crass, crude, and utterly uncaring of others and their sensibility.

OK, If the word when it came into existence was used to described Blacks who were slaves back then, did it mean the same thing then too? I get the definition of the word in the characterizations of what you described above, but was it the same then too? (Sorry if I sound confusing, I'm probably being too wordy).

To simplify, if it was used to describe a person's attitude, did they, American Blacks, justify the name because of their behaviour? Did they became a nigger because of their lifestyles? And I am aware that not all American Blacks are this way. Disclaimer for those who may say I'm generalizing.

Is the nigger always black? No. Just nine times out of ten. There are White, Brown, Yellow, and Red niggers - and their behaviour and attitudes are always the same, whatever the color of their skins[/B]. Are there hard-working, decent, worthy Black men and women in America? Yes there are. I've met some of them. But the majority of American niggers are Black- and niggers are unique to American civilization. They exist nowhere else, and exemplify absolutely the very worst traits of the American character.

Well said and I do see some of the explanation I'm looking for. Thank you.

[B]Certainly, there are loud, abrasive, aggresive, resentful, sullen character-types in every ethnicity, those who believe that the world owes them something and are willing to blame everyone and everything else for their personal shortcomings and failures. And they are not niggers. Because the nigger is nothing more than these attributes and character traits and never progresses beyond them because he does not wish to. It's this wilfull eager resentment; this waiting with baited breath for an opportunity to rip someone off, that characterizes the American nigger, an attribute of human persons I never experienced till I came here.

Again, another explanation that clarifies.

So you don't consider those who are like your description in the first part, and they are another race, niggers because they don't have the resentful sense of entitlement? And they don't go around blaming others? I see clarity! It's not that I didn't know this, in a sense, I just wanted to understand more and see what others who may feel the way they do, why they do.

whatever the color of his skin, every nigger is an American.

When defined the way you have said, I definately see your point!

I ate Jerked Chicken No offence here, but not knowing what this is, it leaves quite a bit open to the imagination

Oh Xythe, you haven't had Chicken until you've eaten Jerked Chicken! The most tastiest morsel of meat you can eat, and the more spicy it is, the better it tastes!


{I'm posting as I go along because of the length of my replies}

Oh Xythe, you haven't had Chicken until you've eaten Jerked Chicken! The most tastiest morsel of meat you can eat, and the more spicy it is, the better it tastes!

I LOVE jerked chicken!

I hope you read the essay.

I haven't yet, but will do at the end of my response.

That's a nigger, FS, and I think you know the difference.

You're right, I do, I have seen the difference and the extreme, as you have. So yes!LOL! YOu paint quite a picture and a reality at that! Sad, but true!

You, m'lady, are just that. A lady. And one I'm very fond of at that.

Thx S! I try to be, 99.9% of the time!LOL! Ditto Super S!

I understand what you're saying and I suspect a touch of the "white guilt" thing there, but remember this: the stench won't clear from the room until somebody opens a window.

Haha, M, never minces (says what he means) words, I love it!LOL!

Whereas the Black men and women I have known in Europe are fully human and wish to live their lives as citizens and contributors to the community, rather than as paraiahs and parasitic hangers-on.

I will agree with you on this. I've had a few run ins myself, when I first came here to live (in the US). I didn't walk the walk, nor the talk the talk, and I certainly didn't mind working and earning my money. I was deemed a Ms Better than the rest, or hoity toity. It wasn't pretty!

I guess in a way I sometimes forget the way how it really is sometimes. Because living here you become insulated to what people are and how they are. Although I never lost myself, I became immersed into the system if you will, agreeing with those who claim this sense of victimhood, even though I know better, that yes, maybe they are victims, maybe they should be treated this way or they do deserve what they are asking for because after all, they did and were treated abominably only 140 or so years ago.

I don't understand why black people call each other that if it is so offensive to them. Is it supposed to take the sting out of it if they use it themselves? I don't really get it.

The now generation do. The older ones and the ones who have survived living in the days when being called a nigger was more blatant, they don't refer to themselves this way. And they too hope that these younger people in the now generation would cease and desist in doing it. They have no clue about themselves or anything. They think they do, but they don't. Many claim that in using the word as they do, it lessens it and it doesn't hold the meaning it did. They really have no clue to what they're doing as far as I'm concerned.

I gave his Empness an insightful rating for his comment

He deserves it, he was pretty eloquent, I agree!

I agree with his wife's opinion of you, too...and I'm sorry if anything I've said has offended or made you feel uncomfortable in any way.

Karen, thank you and no, not at all. Actually, it was the very discussion that brought me to write this piece. Because I wondered at it and wanted to see the reasoning. I know the reasons why, and truthfully, I don't hold anything against anyone who felt the way they do or did, I would lie if I say I didn't feel any different when I experience the same thing. I don't personally think the same why, in every instance but I am aware of what goes on and I know it's not a good thing. And it pains me when stuff like that happens becuase there really is no reason for behaviour such as that. So, please don't feel bad and no, you haven't offended me in anyway!

Heck when I hear about Jamaicans who I know can be the worse type to behave badly when they are ready, act like bafoons, I do shudder and feel bad about it because I know they know better being from the Caribbean and not grown up that way. And some of them have become so insulated by the behaviour of American Blacks that they too sometimes behave in the same manner. Disgusting!

I LOVE jerked chicken!

Ahah, someone who knows! It's all in the wood use to cook it! And the seasoning too!LOL!

If the word really applies to anyone as some people above claim it to, we should accept that all using it does is undercut the argument. Come up with a new word, or use words we already have that can adequately describe the situation. Making it race-based just diverts from the problems you are referring to and dredges up the "old wounds" that some people rely on to excuse their current problems.

Just look at Democrats, for instance. They have lots of language that not only is used to degrade the personhood of minority Americans, but seems to be acceptable enough for minority Americans to cheer. Their social welfare movement, making black Americans voting serfs in the projects and assuming that they can't live without a socialist lifeline, etc.

You say that with the 'n' word and you're racist. Say that in a way that fools people into thinking you are on their side and they cheer. Maybe it is time to take a lesson from the people who REALLY know how to keep slavery alive.

You say that with the 'n' word and you're racist. Say that in a way that fools people into thinking you are on their side and they cheer. Maybe it is time to take a lesson from the people who REALLY know how to keep slavery alive.

Good point Baker!

[excuse me while I get kick off the computer for about an hour or so!]

Love ya, Donna. That's all I wanna say.

(in the end, isn't that all that matters?)

To: BakerStreet

If the word really applies to anyone as some people above claim it to, we should accept that all using it does is undercut the argument. Come up with a new word, or use words we already have that can adequately describe the situation. Making it race-based just diverts from the problems you are referring to and dredges up the "old wounds" that some people rely on to excuse their current problems.

For someone as evidently smart as you are, you sometimes say things that make me think of you as the stupidest creature ever to walk upright.

Out of every ten thousand niggers nine hundred and ninety nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety nine will be American Blacks. Like it or not, the phenomenon of the American nigger is racially based. As I said, since arriving here (in Virginia, particularly, which is a far Blacker State than Ohio) I have met decent, hard working Blacks. But even these have had a touch of the nigger in their behaviour and their attitudes. Even smart, decent, hard-working Blacks here are all too ready to be tempted to play the race card, to attribute their difficulties in life to the machinations of Evil Whitey, and to whine endlessly about how their lives would improve if only The (white) Man would play fair.

Wake up and smell the coffee. How many Blacks, as a proportion of the whole of the American people, are in jail? Who is it spending most of their time killing Blacks? Who is is it, as a proportion of the American people as a whole, that predominantly lives by the sweat of others via the welfare system of this country? You already know.

The nigger in America is a racial phenomenon. And as my old mother would say - let's call a Spade a spade here (pun intended).

Do I use the dreaded N word among my black acquaintances? No (even though I have been referred to many times by them as a nigger). Why? Because I don't particularly wish to be shot in the face. And that ought to tell you something about the hypocrisy, the double-standards, of the American Black. I am a quiet man, and I like a quiet life. I'll go out of my way to maintain that quiet because I value it above many other things. So I tolerate the venality, the corruption, the hypocrisy, and the cant, that is characteristic of American Black culture - even among those Blacks legitimately employed and eager to improve their lives through decent work.

Am I wary of even decent American Blacks? Yes. Why? Because it's been proven to me that even decent Black American citizens, especially those who are born here and native to American society, will if given the chance turn anything and everything I say against me to their own advantage.

Blacks in America are a race apart - whatever their descent, be that African, Jamaican, West Indian or whatever. As foreverserenity says, those Blacks who are new immigrants are exposed to the danger of conforming to the Black American's idea of himself, and since most Black Americans are niggers that means that they are expected and required to become niggers themselves, no matter how hateful the idea of so doing is to them.

The issue is racial in nature, and the American nigger has demonstrated that he is not fit for inclusion in a decent society except as a slave. Since every nigger I have met (with a rare few exceptions) has been both Black and American, this tells me that a) most American Blacks are fit only for slavery, and that those American niggers who are not Black are also fit only for slavery. The proper determinant of whether one should be free or slave is not skin color. The proper determinant of whether one should be free or not is whether one is, or is not, a nigger.

And feeble laments as to the usage of proper names adds nothing to the discussion.

To: dharmagirl

Thank you.

I really don't give a damn what you think of me, EoIC.

I have no doubt of what you are personally, I'd just think you'd be smart enough to hide it. That was my point above. What good is it to make an argument if it is just going to be disregarded offhand because people can't get past what you are?

You can marginalize yourself if you want, but like I said the Dems have been insulting black Americans for decades and only gotten cheers in response. If you want to purposely undermine your argument, use whatever words you want. I would rather my words accomplish something more than smearing myself, deserved or not.

Yes we are, each of us. What we do think of ourselves and others though is the key to how we behave and react.

Exactly Serenity, if think well of ourselves and others, we behave with respect and dignity.

That's amazing Trudy, but not surprising to hear because I'm aware that there are still many people who have never personally met someone of another race, and a person of color.

It might help if I mention that I grew up in the 50's, in a small town and up north one didn't usually see Black people.
Even my son hadn't seen a Black person until he was 4, and that was his HeadStart teacher, Percy. He sat on her lap one day and she was bowled over with laughter when he pried her mouth open cause, as he told her " I want to see if your inside is black too". I was embarrassed when she told me, however she loved it. She was a wonderful mature woman in her 50's I'd guess and full of love. That was my son's first encounter with a person "of color" and I'm glad it was her.

I decided that a "nigger" was anyone who behaved in a manner that was rude, obnoxious, and any other adjectives that one can think up! This is what I'm trying to clarify Trudy. How did you arrive at that definition? Why is that person just someone who has a disgusting attitude and very bad behaviour? The same terminology that is used to describe a black person, the same manner of thinking of what they are?

Please understand where I"m coming from Serenity, I was raised in ( for the most part) a loving home, and to move to the Twin Cities and hear and see all sorts of blantant prejudice, to hear my own race yelling out obscenities to blacks, harrassing innocent women as they walked home with a child and groceries, to see prejudice in action horrified me!
I was so incensed over the slurs, the name-calling, the hatred, that I decided that a "nigger" ( since apparently it meant something bad) could be applied to any race! Normally I would have just called someone "predjuiced" or "hateful" or "stupid", IF I was going to call them names.

To me, if a person is lazy, or ignorant, or selfish, or anything else that isn't positive, then they fit the term "nigger" and good Lord, how I hate to even write that word....
I hope this clears up where I'm coming from.

"That's a word that's used to describe our own wretchedness." - Richard Pryor

EOIC,
I hear frustration and anger with nowhere to place it but upon niggers. I am sure the next argument will be that niggers are the cause of that frustration and anger.

Don't be so niggardly (read: resentful) over the things, whatever they are, that are at the root of this.

Love ya, Donna. That's all I wanna say.(in the end, isn't that all that matters?)

Love y ou too Joe, and yes, in the end, that's all that matters.

But even these have had a touch of the nigger in their behaviour and their attitudes. Even smart, decent, hard-working Blacks here are all too ready to be tempted to play the race card, to attribute their difficulties in life to the machinations of Evil Whitey, and to whine endlessly about how their lives would improve if only The (white) Man would play fair.

I have to agree with you on this point Emperor, because having heard the same myself from people who are not in any way of form, niggers, there are times when they will fall prey to this type of thinking. When people get frustrated, they will say anything out of vexation. I chalk it down to that with those whom I know personally, because it's not something that's often said. I can't speak for anyone else though, and I know that this does happen.

Who is it spending most of their time killing Blacks?

This is also true. It's a major problem that is so predominantly echoed in every inner city in every state of our nation. Alas, it is a horrific situation and something that those that are in charge and of the thinking that "oh let them kill themselves" are ok with. It's something that will never end until the ones that are doing it get out of the type of mentality of what's owed to them, and who is to blame for their situation, just because!

How many Blacks, as a proportion of the whole of the American people, are in jail?

As long as there are drugs and illegal things out there, and as long as they continue to look for a quick way to make a buck. There will always be more African American in jail. There are however those that are there that should never have been there. There are still those black men who will end up there just because. Even those who make a mistake in their lives and what may be a slap on the wrist for others will be the end for them, and they will meet the maximum penalty. That is what's unfair and that's what it is like and is the reality in being black.

Who is is it, as a proportion of the American people as a whole, that predominantly lives by the sweat of others via the welfare system of this country?

Yes, there are so many blacks who are in this situation, too many infact. Some know nothing else and they fall into place or into line to continue what they know, being supported by the government. This in itself is an even longer discussion.

As foreverserenity says, those Blacks who are new immigrants are exposed to the danger of conforming to the Black American's idea of himself, and since most Black Americans are niggers that means that they are expected and required to become niggers themselves, no matter how hateful the idea of so doing is to them.

Again, I agree with you on this. Because somehow no matter how much they know, how aware they are, what they have been taught since childhood, the minute they get here and after living amonst and mixing with those blacks born here, the immigrant is not the same person he was when he came here. This unfortunately happens to too many. Most of the times it happens to those who are still searching for a sense of self, and they have no guidance and are left alone to their own devises. Especially the younger ones. What became of the goals, the commitment to family and to themselves? It all disappears as they fit in and become just another number.

The issue is racial in nature, and the American nigger has demonstrated that he is not fit for inclusion in a decent society except as a slave.

It is a racial matter and will always be. I have to disagree with you on the other point though. No one no matter what would not want to be a slave in the sense that happened over 140 years ago. If that were to happen, well, this would not be America anymore.

However, in a sense they are slaves to what they believe, how they act, what they think and how they continue to live their lives. In this manner, yes, slavery still exists of ones own making.

Even my son hadn't seen a Black person until he was 4, and that was his HeadStart teacher, Percy. He sat on her lap one day and she was bowled over with laughter when he pried her mouth open cause, as he told her " I want to see if your inside is black too". I was embarrassed when she told me, however she loved it. She was a wonderful mature woman in her 50's I'd guess and full of love. That was my son's first encounter with a person "of color" and I'm glad it was her.

I laughed at this too Trudy! That was too funny and too cute! It sounds like your son had a great teacher and I'm glad it was her!

Please understand where I"m coming from Serenity, I was raised in ( for the most part) a loving home, and to move to the Twin Cities and hear and see all sorts of blantant prejudice, to hear my own race yelling out obscenities to blacks, harrassing innocent women as they walked home with a child and groceries, to see prejudice in action horrified me! I was so incensed over the slurs, the name-calling, the hatred, that I decided that a "nigger" ( since apparently it meant something bad) could be applied to any race! Normally I would have just called someone "predjuiced" or "hateful" or "stupid", IF I was going to call them names. To me, if a person is lazy, or ignorant, or selfish, or anything else that isn't positive, then they fit the term "nigger" and good Lord, how I hate to even write that word....I hope this clears up where I'm coming from.

I understand Trudy, thx!

That's a word that's used to describe our own wretchedness." - Richard Pryor

Icono, Richard had some real truth in those words!

I hear frustration and anger with nowhere to place it but upon niggers. I am sure the next argument will be that niggers are the cause of that frustration and anger.

While I can't speak for the Emperor, Heydre, I don't think that's where his frustrations lay nor would he blame others for it. And also, openly discussing his thoughts on a topic such as this does not mean he's frustrated, I'm surprise you would even suggest it. One learns from what they have experienced in life, and being able to come to any type of understanding and gaining knowledge from that is a good thing.