Invading starbases

... and a word on population

from GalCiv2 Forums
Starbases are so expensive that I want them to be CAPTURED rather than treated like a war vessel. Shock Troops could be more useful if it produced... wait for it... SHOCK TROOPS. These troops can be added to capital ships and starbases for their offensive/defensive objectives.

Right now, it is beyond aggravating to get a base destroyed, watch your enemy build one or two modules and then go destroy the new base.

WHY? WHY? WHY?

Capturing starbases and leaving them relatively intact would add so much spice to the game. When the frakkin Torians steal a base, you suddenly have another wrinkle in the epic generator. It's time to rally the troops and retake the starbase.

Starbases need ridiculously insane hit points from the very first constructor. They should also require a colony ship to populate.

It's not beyond the existing AI capabilities. When you invade a starbase, you would get multiple options like planetary invasion. Complete destruction would be an option. Let complete destruction come at a price of population. Unless robots run these bases, there should be a population loss upon destruction.

What _should_ be destroyed before any invasion are planetary defenses along the lines of Imperium Galactica 2 and every epic science fiction story ever ( Return of the Jedi comes to mind. )

Human players not named Bush would aim to keep the infrastructure of the enemy intact as far as possible.
16,906 views 26 replies
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
How about a capture module that gives you a percent chance to capture some ships instead of destroying them?

It could be extremely large and extremely expensive, so that it would create a possibility that an enemy fleet could destroy the ship carrying it.
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I like the concept, but at the same time, I would not want it to be nigh impossible to destroy a starbase. But I agree, invade a starbase like a planets. Let it have a orbital screen for ships.

Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
How about a capture module that gives you a percent chance to capture some ships instead of destroying them?


Just a shock troops module that can attach to both bases and ships should do it.

This is partly connected to reforming how constructors work and how bases are armed. If we could simply design the base using weapons we already researched, that would go a long way. Bases fight like (worse than) ships but we can't arm them with nanorippers or defend them with tri-strotium.

Shock troops for ships and bases. That's what I want.

I would not want it to be nigh impossible to destroy a starbase.


Of course not. Complete destruction would be an option as it is in planetary invasion.

Like planets, you should have to grab them first and then destroy them. It could default to automatic "complete destruction" attempt if the attacking player doesn't have any troop modules.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hmm, it's a pity combat options are so limited with Galciv2. Master of Orion 2 was great fun with all its different weapons and devices that could stun enemy craft, reflect weapon fire back, and transport troops to the enemy ships and starbases etc. Ideally with GC2 you could capture a starbase during battle instead of just pummelling it with weapons fire. You'd have other ships knock out the starbases defences, then move in with the attack transporter, dock, then have the automated battle outcome. If you're successful, the starbase is captured, if not, well the ship that docked is destroyed and the battle either resumes or ends.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
that could add a new edge to fleets early on in the game
how many transports to add to the fleet.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Trying to be like MOO will kill the AI. I think the following incremental changes would greatly benefit the game:

1) starbase design. Researched weapons/defenses are the same weapons/defenses that can go on a starbase. Eliminate the starbase fortification research branch. Let miniaturization govern the ability to create hybrid (economic/military or economic/influence.)

2) increase starbase hit points. Sure, Starbases aren't fortresses but they shouldn't be pushovers either. I'm not playing a spreadsheet game so telling me that the bases serve only to increase some statistical aspect of the game is a serious turn off. If I want the ghetto fabulous DS9 dream, I should be permitted to play for it. Make it expensive but make it worth having.

3) shock troops should be an actual technology. Add shock troop modules to ships and bases for offense/defense. Starfleet Command 3 did this nicely.

4) factor population into starbases. When money is tight, players should have options to spend their population to their advantage.

Watching perfectly good bases go to hell for any civilization is just sad.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Of course, if you really don't want to destroy an opponent's starbase, the existing and fair option is always there for you to barter for it. Even if you do need to hand over 14 of your 15 planets and all the football trading cards in your empire.

Anyway as to my idea, I'm suggesting you still need some kind of battle going on before attempting to capture the station. A fully operational station will shoot to kill before handing over control. It should be a costly and tricky precedure or it could be easily exploited.

Another idea would be during the capture a certain number of modifications are destroyed in the fight, which would mean you wouldn't inherit a perfect station. Otherwise you could set about capturing as many teched up influence starbases as possible and cause massive havoc and rebellions without worrying about landing troops on planets and having a fight with the idiots who won't die quietly.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Someone mentioned MOO2. You know, IF there were shock troops to invade and commandeer starbases and ships, it would also be neat to have a small percentage chance of gaining technology from a scrap as in MOO2 (I feature I really wish was in MOO3). Then you can be torn between keeping and modifying the captured base, or scrapping it for $ and the chance to gain an enemy tech that you do not have.

Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm suggesting you still need some kind of battle going on before attempting to capture the station


We're on the same wavelength, professor. Capturing bases will come at a price--just not the same price as rebuilding the whole frakkin thing. There must be a fight. Defenses must be knocked out. Troops will die. It shouldn't be anywhere near easy. Ditto for planets.

Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I would like the same thing applyed to capital ships using bording craft, but nice idea anyway   
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Okay, so the whole forum wants carriers, better ship scroll, and starbase/capital ship boarding on a reasonable bsis. Is Stardock listening???

Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Okay, so the whole forum wants carriers, better ship scroll, and starbase/capital ship boarding on a reasonable bsis. Is Stardock listening???


Nothing about carriers here. Seriously. I want things within the scope of the existing codebase and AI.

Capturing ships and bases. That's all this thread is about.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I love the capture ship / starbase idea but only if the AI can be coded to use it. I'm still despairing at how easy Maso is because I can just churn out Troop trans and take their undefended worlds at the start.

Why don't they buy empty tiny hulls to stop this!?!?!

My point is: Brad and his team have a LONG way to go before they get to the point where they should be considering adding new features. The AI is still much too weak.
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The AI might be better at starbases than planets.

Planets must be fortresses. Players should have to take out ground laser, mass driver or missile defenses before invading a planet is even possible.

I believe part of the planet problem (short description for a serious matter) will be solved when races can't just run out and grab any planet without terraforming.

Personally, I like watching ships get destroyed. While I added ship capture to the thread line because it was compatible with the base invasion idea, why would I want to keep an enemy ship? It would lose because my ships are superior. Keeping crap and paying expenses on it isn't a good idea.

Bases, in contrast, are extremely valuable and worth keeping.
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I believe the starbase / ship capture idea is one of the coolest things ever.
Note: ONE of the coolest, not the coolest.
I think it should be a turn based battle, but with soldier battalions invading a circular like area with different rooms, like an old RPG game, but turn based.

If you've played Shattered Union(X-Box) something like that is what I'm thinking, but smaller and looks like it's inside of a building.

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The General of the Garand Republic
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I would like some way to get rid of foreign starbases without going to war.

It annoys me when someone build bases in my territory, there should be some way of dealing with foreign starbases that dosent kill the mechanics of Influence/Resource starbases.
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Tugboats.

Maybe that's the happy medium for the players' desire to move bases in peaceful situations and Stardock's aversion to allowing engines on Starbases.
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hey, here's a solution to the "too weak starbases, even after upgrading them with combat modules" problem. For each new module that you build, increase the starbase's HP by 1. Problem solved.
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
To board and conquer enemy ships is always a good idea.

To make it turn based and have troops move through the base or ship would be to much. While X-com UFO defense was a good game, it really got old after awhile with the constant individual troop movement. Fighting the same type of battle over and over again. This would slow GalCiv2 down to much in my opinion.

I think it should be based on the amount of troops the added module has versus the amount of the defending troops on the ship or starbase. Like the Planet vs. the Troop ship attacks we have now.

Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think it should be based on the amount of troops the added module has versus the amount of the defending troops on the ship or starbase. Like the Planet vs. the Troop ship attacks we have now.


Yes. It's well within the capabilities of the existing code.
Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
There doesn't seem to be anything like Star Trek's transporter technology in the game, so this means the troops have to enter the station either through an existing docking port or creating a breach in a bulkhead to make their own Temporary Airlock (perhaps an extension of force field technology).

Another concern is how many attacking troops are allowed in the boarding party. If it's a small station with a maximum physical capacity of 500 persons, there's no way you're going to cram 10,000 trooops in there because they'd be packed tighter than sardines. I think the size of any boarding party would have to be limited to the size of the station. Perhaps this could be simulated through allowing (Attacking Troop Ships) = (Starbase Battle Station Level) + 1. This might have the effect of lowering the SBSL after each wave, and if it reaches zero, invasion is successful.

Otherwise, it would be all too easy to send 50 Troopships to conquer every starbase, even if the starbase was unable to support that many people. Starbase assaults would be different than a planetary assault, because you're dealing with a finite limited space to hold the troops rather than the wide open terrain of a planet.
Reply #24 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The base soldiers would have the advantage of knowing the base. The invaders would have to have better soldier ability.

As for transporters, you're right. Within the context of the GC2 story, transporters won't work. They just figured out hyperdrive. Then again, Star Trek figured out transporters shortly after figuring out warp drive.

It still works for starbases.
Reply #25 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm not playing a spreadsheet game


Yes you are, Wheel. Another name for galactic 4X is "database in space."

But I basically second your ideas here. I think one reason I'm leery of going beyond Tough is that I expect more prudent starbase attacks from the AI. I saw a lot of that before I got in the habit of maxing out my combat modules for resource mines, and it is still a little disappointing how easily I can seize resources when some AI is stupid enough to start a war with a much-superior power.