So why expand the expansion?

Marketing determines sequels..

When the November beta of Galactic Civilizations II: Dark Avatar hits it'll be pretty apparent that it would have not been a problem to maintain the original November release date of the expansion pack had we kept the original feature set.

So the question is, why add more features?

The simplest answer is that Stardock is privately owned. There really isn't a good business justification. Believe me, we've tried to come up with a plausible marketing or publishing reason to add more features to the expansion pack but it always comes back to the same answer -- because we wanted to.

There were just a couple of things that we just didn't want to have to wait for some future sequel for.  The number of new little touches that aren't even being mentioned in the bullet points will become pretty apprarent (like re-texturing starbases and components and such to look nicer). And we just wanted to have these things in there so that when we are working on other games (there will be two more Stardock developed games before we even contemplate a GalCiv sequel) we weren't feeling regretful for not getting to them sooner.

The Mega events and the unique features I think are two key ones that are pretty time consuming to get right (and balance and write AI for).  I hang out on a lot of forums. I don't usually post but I read them.  While most people like GalCiv II, there were a couple of complaints that came up time and time again:

  1. After awhile, the game felt repetitive.
  2. The alien races were generic to play as. Why play as the Drengin vs. the Arceans?
  3. The technology tree was unwieldly and uninspired.

My view is, if some people felt that way after 8 months, imagine what it would be like after 3 years. I want to have a game that people would still be enjoying years from now.  BTW -- another argument for no CD copy protection -- you can keep the game on the hard drive for years without keeping track of some CD/DVD and occasionally fire it up years later.

A word on what we mean by a stream-lined technology tree...What we don't lke about our technology tree is this:

Laser I..Laser II...Laser III...Laser IV...Yawn.

It's just totally uninspired.  So what we're going to do is reimagine how the technology tree is displayed. There will be MORE technologies total. We're not nerfing the tech tree.  We are just looking for better and more innovative ways to present it. 

The idea we're playing with (that won't be in the beta) is the concept of Milestones.

So when researching weapons you would see Lasers. And instead of there being Laser I, Laser II, etc. It would just be Lasers and you would hit multiple milestones. Each milestone would give you the same kind sof benefits as you got from say Laser III (new components).  But on the research screen, what you would see is the Laser tech slowly filling up. 

Incidentally, we are also going to release a Galactic Civilizations II v1.4 shortly. Main changes will be an AI crash bug fix and some changes to morale and economics (we're going to make the morale buildings more powerful but the techs to get them MUCH more expensive).

Anyway, the goal of Dark Avatar is really to put together an expansion pack that we think addresses the key game elements that we think can realistically be added in an expansion pack (I'd put in OPTIONAL tactical battle features but that would be immensely expensive to do). 

When people start getting the beta in a few weeks, I think what they'll be most surprised with is just how much better and cleaner the game looks. Lots of little touches that aren't even mentioned.  If you've seen one of our game update change logs, you can probably imagine what something we charge money for has in it. ;)

46,630 views 36 replies
Reply #1 Top
I just recently started playing Gal Civ II and have been very impressed. Turn based games were not really my "thing", but after playing for about an hour, that hour turned into three more. One of the things I did not like about the game is what you referenced to the tech tree. I like your idea and look forward to see what it leads to.
Reply #2 Top
The new way of grouping technology sounds very good. I do hope that the interface is fixed to allow two prerequisite techs for a tech.
Reply #4 Top
The new tech-tree style sounds excellent; the idea of having "milestones" so that tech development is progressive is innovative and realistic, even if it is basically a consolidation of all the various "Graviton Drivers I, II, and III" techs.

Looking at some screenshots, I'm excited about some of the new interface changes. Reading one linked article, I like that other races can use our custom ships. I'd like to see the ability to allow/disallow enemy opponents to use user-made templates when the opponent in question is using the same style hull.

It looks like a lot of new hulls are being added, but I have to ask -- we're not losing any hulls, are we? Also, is each race going to have a unique ship style? Aaaand, while I'm on this train of thought: how about the ability to access the shipyard without actually playing a game.

I'm excited. I'm still playing Gal Civ II in my spare time when I can, so I can wait -- but it'll be tough, and I may have to preorder!
Reply #5 Top
PLease please please..... I need the ability to select what keystroke will scroll the screen. My Nostromo directional pad does not properly support scrolling in GalCiv, because the map-scroll requires a SHIFT.
Reply #6 Top
PLease please please..... I need the ability to select what keystroke will scroll the screen. My Nostromo directional pad does not properly support scrolling in GalCiv, because the map-scroll requires a SHIFT.


you know you can scroll with the mouse with a click and drag, much more efficient then a keyboard or a psuedo-keyboard (nostromo)
Reply #7 Top
The fact that you are privately owned is what makes you guys so awesome -- you don't have to answer to the shareholders and that makes a huge difference in what you are free to do. And while you certainly know why, for those that don't, corporate officers are legally required to make decisions that effectively maximize the wealth of the shareholders. That's often why big huge public companies make some of the "heartless" decisions that they make -- they are literally required to lest they open themselves up to shareholder derivative suits.

Point being, I will only start crying profusely when I read somewhere that Stardock has been sold to EA or Microsoft or something. But since I'm fairly certain that such an event will only occur over Brad's dead body, I feel safe...unless...unless, well, let's ask him: do you have a price for Stardock, Mr. Wardell? If Google came and offered YOU nearly $2 billion would you consider it?

He'd be a fool not to, but in the meantime, we get a great company that makes great games because they can do what they want. Yay for Stardock!
Reply #8 Top
Incidentally, we are also going to release a Galactic Civilizations II v1.4 shortly.


Glad to here it. The latest version (1.31) is lightyears better than the out the box version but there are still bugs and other things that need to be fixed.

For one the PQ level of a planet still doesn't always match the number of tiles. I used the terraformer special in my latest game and the PQ levels didn't increase. It was still wrong even before I used it though. Poss to do with conquered or surrendered planets...?

The AI is building silly transports eg i've seen the Yor build 31 attck transports which is a huge waste of resources they could probably build 3 super fast transports for the same industry.

I've seen the altarian AI use ion drive on its constructors when it has hyperwarp tech.

Imo when the AI is at war it really should be producing military at about 80% of resources if not more. I'm really not a big fan of splitting resources 3 way I think the best players simply use 100% of there resources on one thing until they get it done and then switch to something else.

fix and some changes to morale and economics (we're going to make the morale buildings more powerful but the techs to get them MUCH more expensive).


I thought nerfing the morale was to stop the 80% tax rates, the fact is good players will try to reach the max tax rate almost whatever you do. Interested to see how the new changes affect the game...


Imo the Gal Civ 2 tech tree was one of the biggest improvements over the original, your example with the laser field will that be the same for all tech branches ?


Lenius.

Reply #9 Top
I'm very happy about the tech tree will be streamlined.I would like to know if there will be also better descriptions.Having some of the techs with a description VROOOM, YAWN didn't help the immersivity of game
Reply #10 Top
It really boils down to...


Are you sure you don't have time for just...


one...

more...


turn???

Or feature, as the case may be.


I look forward to the DA beta's, just as much as the release of DA.

And the more features you want to put in, well, all I can say is, GO FOR IT!!!



And, PLEASE...
Give at least a week's warning for the first beta. I want to be able to pre-order to get it, and so does my nephew. We don't want to have to wait till the next major revision, if that is how you will work things. Hopefully the Paypal debit/credit card will work for that.

Reply #11 Top
As already said, the Tech Tree changes looks interesting.

While, most of other features like Spies, the Epic Gen, Asteroids,... doesn't seem too exciting features for me, Unique Race abilities and the new Tech Tree does indeed makes me curious about their impact in gameplay, (other features will surely impact gameplay also, but not neccesary for good).

As has been told thousand of times before, a Tactical Battle feature would indeed be a total crack feature, justifying it alone the whole expansion. I only hope that Stardock will find the time for doing it, even on a second expansion pack, in a near future.

Keep it up with the good work, people.


Reply #12 Top
Incidentally, we are also going to release a Galactic Civilizations II v1.4 shortly.


That's great to hear! While you're doing that, can you fix the following:

- 1st planetary improvement shows incorrect build time.

- Production and research don't work on the first turn after a reload.

- Easier way to keep shipyard clean of old designs from previous games.
Reply #13 Top
PS (cookie problem won't let me edit earlier post)

For version 1.4:

- Clicking the "X declares war on Y" alert icon, lets you chat to race X even if you haven't met them before.

- Hotkey for taking screenshots? (pretty please with sugar on)
Reply #14 Top
do you have a price for Stardock, Mr. Wardell?


He already turned down an acquisition offer once back during the dot-com boom. Good thing he did too, as Stardock is still here while the other company is not
Reply #15 Top
It would be very difficult for someone to acquire Stardock.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not unbuyable but a 50 person company with one principle stock holder isn't your typical set up. There isn't much of an incentive to sell when I get to spend all day making cool stuff.
Reply #16 Top
STARDOCK TOTALLY AND COMEPLETLY ROXXORS!!!!!!!!!!

Well now that that is out of the way, i love the tech tree idea. i have always thought it was a bit wierd to have laser 1-4 and labeling them as such, but I never said anything because I could think of a polite way to put it. I am so overjoyed that you have the ability to criticaly examine your own game. And as far as doing what you want to do, go for it.

Im gonna use this time to tell you how incredibly excited I am about Society. Also the other game you alluded to interests me, I wish i had more info on it.
Reply #17 Top
And, PLEASE...
Give at least a week's warning for the first beta. I want to be able to pre-order to get it, and so does my nephew. We don't want to have to wait till the next major revision, if that is how you will work things. Hopefully the Paypal debit/credit card will work for that.



The way it worked with the GC2 betas was that everyone who pre-ordered before a new build release got access to beta builds from tht point on. So if you ordered after 0.1 was released you had to wait for 0.2 to come out to get access.

As the DA beta is coming out in november I guess you have between 2-5 weeks to get your order in. I assume we will see a few rounds of beta for DA as there was for GC2 as they get more features finished and ready for us to try and break/exploit/rave over.
Reply #18 Top
Frogboy is there any possibility of getting the 'GNN News' to reappear if we click a button etc. As mentioned some time previously and backed by a large no. of people it would be handy to have this feature.

Thanks.

BTW you guys rock!!! Still waiting for my new PC to finish being built for me. But then its Gigantic all the way baby Plus with the new features i figure i might need the extra computing power of a dual-core
Reply #19 Top
THIS is why I preordered.

I once payed asking price a second time to buy a "new" version of a game I already owned, on the promise that the new version would be continually supported, expanded, and improved. This has not come to pass.

StarDock did more between 1.2 and 1.3 than that company did for their "new" version. So I took the risk, even having been burned badly, because I wanted to believe you really were different. It is nice to see that my investment will bear fruit. Thanks for doing things RIGHT, rather than right now!

Jon
Reply #20 Top
I love the concept for the Streamlined Tech Tree - it sounds innovative and much more FUN! Not just compared to GC2, but to all civ-style games...one tech tree seems just like the others after a while; the concept has gotten stale over the years, IMHO. Thanks for having the huevos to try something new....Milestones sound great!
Reply #21 Top
why add more features?...because we wanted to.

Only a CEO of a game developer/publisher company who is also a gamer would make this statement! If only Stardock was the norm!

we are also going to release a Galactic Civilizations II v1.4 shortly

Good to here 1.31 is not the last free update; do you have a target release date?
Reply #22 Top
I know it isn't going to happen, but the thing I think I would most like to see in the expansion would be Terror Stars as people are calling them, or at the very least reworking starship and component sizes to allow more stuff on bigger ships. That is the one thing that never felt right to me about Gal Civ 2 is that on the small end of the spectrum, you have fighters, one man craft, and on the other you have titanic dreadnaughts, many kilometers long. Why is it that these huge, behemoth, battleships are only able to hold a few times the weapons of the fighters? Not counting miniaturization, a fighter has 1/6 the space of these stellar monstrosities.

It always bothered me that huge hulls didn't feel huge compared to tiny hulls. It would be nice, as I came into this with, if there was another class of hull that genuinely felt massive, that I could put dozens of guns on, and charge into battle with against an enemy which was doing likewise. I would appreciatte any feedback on what you think about what I said and if you have any plans to make fighters in game feel more like fighters and the dreadnaughts feel more like dreadnaughts, aside from telling me to mod GC2types.xml that is.
Reply #23 Top
I'd like to see massive hulls too but they probably won't make it into DA.  Maybe something beyond that.
Reply #24 Top
One part of the game i would like 'tweaked' is a players ability to see what the AI ships have 'bolted' to them. If you click on an AI's starbase you require a high level of espionage to see what it contains, yet you can see all the components of one of their ships from the start. This would further enhance the spying role etc

Plus it would boost multi-weapon ships as you would not know what the ai was using. This i believe would add a whole new aspect of fun to the game!!
Reply #25 Top
One part of the game i would like 'tweaked' is a players ability to see what the AI ships have 'bolted' to them. If you click on an AI's starbase you require a high level of espionage to see what it contains, yet you can see all the components of one of their ships from the start. This would further enhance the spying role etc

Plus it would boost multi-weapon ships as you would not know what the ai was using. This i believe would add a whole new aspect of fun to the game!!


This is nin all ready. At a low spy level, you can see what the ship is made of. However, you must be at the highest level to see what's in their starbases.