Have you ever been Held Hostage by a Toddler?

from JoeUser Forums
People told me that after having a child my life would never be the same again. I didn't need to be told that. I kinda had an idea.

But at what point do we stop letting our kids take over our lives completely? I haven't found that balance yet.

Today it took me 30 minutes to get my son to sit in his car seat. I knew if I forced him he'd put up a huge fight, turn bright red, hurt himself and me in the process, and SCREEEEEEAAAAAAAAAM through it all. I didn't want to deal with any of that. Not at 8am. I chose the peaceful route, but yes a task that should have taken 30 seconds took a full 30 minutes.

"Do you wanna go to the gym?" I coerced him. He likes the gym.

"Yes!" he said.

"OK, then you need to sit in your car seat."

"Ummmm.....NOPE," he said from behind the steering wheel.

Three or four more times I reminded him kindly that this car wasn't going anywhere until he was sitting where he belongs. Much of the half hour was spent in silence, but I enjoyed the silence over our alternate option of blood-curdling screams. Silence is good. To my amazement he eventually climbed into his chair on his own free will.

So what's wrong with that picture? I'm just teaching him that he doesn't have to do anything unless he wants to do it, right? Right. Believe me I'd rather have him obey me without the screaming, flailing tantrums. But there are more often the times I'd rather avoid the tantrums altogether, and that's by letting things go his way, although long before I became a mother I knew that parenting strategy was a big NO-NO. But here I am now. *Sigh* My toddler holds me hostage.

Also, if we'd been in the company of others I sincerely doubt they would have been willing to sit in silence for 30 minutes while my willful toddler took his sweet time following an irrevocable order.

I've got to start teaching him how to behave in such a way that he can get along in society. Right now he's master of this house and he's a wild child in public.

Last week on vacation my brother witnessed what it's like to give my son a bath. 'Twan't a peaceful scene.

And just today I had to stay within 3 feet of him at a play group because I didn't like the vindictive look he got in his eye whenever another child approached him.

Can somebody get me some earplugs and the SWAT team please?
2,337 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
SWAT team is right....he needs a few swift ones imho.

You aren't doing him any favors letting him be boss. He won't have friends because they won't want to give in to him all the time.

His teachers will hate him.

You are setting him up for big time loser land Angela.

Who cares if he screams and cries? LET HIM. I would have given him two options. 1. You either get in your car seat on your own. 2. I help you into your car seat after two swift swats.

Then when he refused, option two by default.

If he gets really out of control, delay the trip to the gym and put him alone in his room, door shut, until he cools off.

My son used to get really obnoxious when I was on the phone. So one day I dragged him by the arm and put him in the back yard, then went back into the house and shut the door.

He totally freaked out and banged on the door...but I went into another room, finished the conversation then let him in. He was three at the time and he never was a jerk while I was on the phone again. (Of course I watched him from a window to make sure he didn't wander off, but he didn't know that.)

I also stopped once in a deserted parking lot, unbuckled him and put him out of the car (he was three). He was screaming and being loud and I couldn't drive.

I started to drive off..pulled up a few feet and then when I saw he got the message I stopped, got out, put him back in his seat and told him if he ever screamed like that again he would be walking all the way home.

He never did it again.

OF course I made sure the lot was deserted, he was not close to the vehicle when I pulled away...made a big show of waiving good bye....you have to be smart about it.

This wouldn't work with my second. He'd give me his version of the finger and head off in the opposite direction. He has no fear of separation.

DANG.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

Honey, Tova's right.  You're not doing him any favors by letting him rule the roost.  He has to understand that YOU are the parent, and that you're in charge.  It's ok to give him choices like 'would you like apple or grape juice to drink?' or 'the red shirt or the blue one?' but in situations like riding in the car and taking a bath you've got to exercise control. 

I know what it's like to deal with an obstinate toddler.  My middle kid, Davey, used to be incredibly stubbon and was a tantrum thrower extrordinaire when he was a toddler.  I used to do anything to avoid the tantrums, and the result of it was that Davey figured out exactly how to get what he wanted from me.  It took his dad and I a looooong time to get him out of the habit of manipulating us, and I'd hate for you to have to go through that.  Getting him out of the habit was MUCH worse than the tantrums he threw when he was a toddler.

Sometimes the only way to get a child's attention is to swat them on the butt - especially if they're in the middle of pitching a fit.  If I had been faced with what you were faced with, I'd have asked him if he wanted to go to the gym, and when he said yes, I'd have told him that he has to ride in the carseat.  'Umm...no' would have resulted in my saying 'umm...YES' and I'd have put him in the seat.  When he pitched a fit about it, I'd have swatted him on the rear and then MADE him sit in his carseat, no matter how much he struggled and screamed. 

I know that sometimes the last thing you want to deal with is a screaming child, but.....you've got to let him know who's boss in your house, and you've got to start soon.

I hope that you don't think that I'm berating you about this, because I'm not; I'm trying to give you advice out of love and concern for you and your baby (and the one on the way too. Btw, can I knit you a little something?).  I don't want you to have a battle on your hands once you're new one arrives.

If you need any help or just need to vent, give me a shout.  I'll always have a shoulder and a ear for you....

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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hey Angie,

I feel for ya, one of my sons gets the devil in him at times and just throws a plain old stinker.
Sounds like yours has learned what buttons to push already.

Nothing stops a tantrum dead in its tracks like a trip to a cold shower.
I used it once on stinker child when he was put in bed to cool down and decided instead to wreck the room.

I simply picked him up and held him under a nice cold stream of water from the shower.
I asked him if he had cooled down and he had!
We dried him off and clean him up and then back to the room to pick up the mess he had made.
We talked about it that night and the next few nights on why he got the cold shower.

It has never escalated to that point again.
As rough as it may sound now, kids need to know the rules they got to play by.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
How to Behave so your preschooler behaves too by Sal Severe is a great book.

One thing I would say is not to give him a choice if he doesn't have a choice. Would you have not gone to the gym? The key word is IT'S TIME to go to the gym. IT'S TIME to get in your car seat. IT's TIME to get a bath.

And try rewards which are totally different from bribes. Stickers are great little rewards. Or make it a game. Do you have a stop watch? Ask him how fast he can get in his car seat and time him and then the next time see if he can beat his time. Have him race you to see who can get buckled up fastest - nothing makes their day more than beating mommy at something.

Hang in there toddlers will wear you down and wear you out. Just try not to let him have the power. You're the boss. I find little mantras help when I feel like I'm about to lose it. It sounds kind of dorky and new agey but it works for me. Just tell yourself. "I am in control." etc.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Lots of good advice by the gals already Angela. They're all correct. It basically comes down to remembering who is the parent and who is the child.

He sounds very strong willed. I remember once when my two year old would let his three year old brother pick up all the toys before bed. He would just sit and play while Bobby obediently did all the work. My husband one night told Brian to start picking up but he defiantly just looked at him and continued playing, So Bobby was sent out of the room and what ensued was a loud crying jag for two hours while my husband forced his hand to pick up every single toy in that toy room. It was a struggle and one I still remember 20 years later. It was painful to watch. My husband emerged soaked in sweat (it was summertime) and Brian was exhausted. He did everything he could not to pick up these toys. By the end we did see submission.

The next night? Brian obediently picked up the toys with his brother. It was hard work for us to discipline him but only for one night of misery. After that he got the picture. We were amazed and realized then what we had discovered. Tough love works. This training I believe came in handy at VMI and one of the reasons he was so successful there.

The funny thing is I still see their same personalities now as I did then. My oldest is very others' oriented always wants to please and do the right thing. Rarely got disciplined in any shape or form. My second is me oriented doing what feels good for him. But I think the discipline over the years has shaped that somewhat, and I shudder to think what he would be like if we left it unchecked.

We coached baseball for 8 years and one boy on the team had a very bad temper. He was on the basketball team as well as my boys. I would see him beam a ball at anybody near when a bad call was called against him. His parents always looked embarrased and would look away. They never did anything. I couldn't believe it. They left him unchecked.

When he was 15 he committed suicide. His father found him hanging in the basement. I think he did so to spite his parents to tell the truth. He was an angry undisciplined young man. He was a wild child, never tamed. His parents have alot of regrets.

I think of the proverb that says: "Even a child is known by his doings; whether his work be pure and whether it be right."

This means that even the activities of a child in his early years point to the direction his life is taking.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
You aren't doing him any favors letting him be boss. He won't have friends because they won't want to give in to him all the time.

His teachers will hate him.

You are setting him up for big time loser land Angela.


Ouch. But point well-taken.

Who cares if he screams and cries? LET HIM. I would have given him two options. 1. You either get in your car seat on your own. 2. I help you into your car seat after two swift swats.


OK, but more likely than not it will result in option 2. And I really don't think he responds to sharp spankings. I fear from previous attempts at this that he just thinks I'm a meanie who's out of line at hitting a kid. He's learned nothing from previous swats outside of the fact that I'm a meanie. And I don't want him to fear me, I simply want him to BEHAVE. But I'll try the swats again, and try to mean it this time...that is, I'll try not to feel guilty because I'm sure the neighbors are going to report me as a child abuser. They're on vacation so I've got a week or so to hone my child-swatting skills. Hehe.

My son used to get really obnoxious when I was on the phone. So one day I dragged him by the arm and put him in the back yard, then went back into the house and shut the door...

I also stopped once in a deserted parking lot, unbuckled him and put him out of the car (he was three)...I started to drive off..pulled up a few feet and then when I saw he got the message I stopped, got out, put him back in his seat and told him if he ever screamed like that again he would be walking all the way home. He never did it again.


I admire you for exercising tough love...I have to say though that my mom used to do stuff like this to my brother and it gave me a shaky foundation of trust for her and of the stability of our safety in the world in general. I mean, c'mon, The one person we were supposed to love and trust...casting out my brother and threatening desertion!!! The only thing that parenting strategy taught me (as a child) was that my mom had thoughts in her mind of deserting us. What a dreadful seed to plant in a child's mind. But of course everyone is different, and for all I know it was effective on my brother, and it sounds like it's been effective on your oldest too. Hmm.

It's ok to give him choices like 'would you like apple or grape juice to drink?' or 'the red shirt or the blue one?'


Hehe. I think that's where this all began. Some good advice from a parenting magazine that I've taken to extremes. I give him choices with EVERYTHING now. I've wondered why I do this, and decided it's because 1)I'm a stay-at-home mom devoted entirely to him; 2)therefore anything I really want to do has been set aside for the next 18 years anyway; 3) so anything he wants to do [within reason] pretty much rules our days.

Here's an early-morning scene from a couple weeks ago: So Michael, whattya wanna do today? (We're 20 miles from home and all I've got is my husband's cash card, nothing else by way of preparation.) His eyes light up as he considers the possibilities..."Go to the zoo!" he says. Harmless enough. So although I wasn't armed with our free season pass I drove him another 30 miles to the zoo, only for him to become cranky there (understatement) so we turned around and drove the 50 miles home so he could take a nap.

I really need to learn to plan our days to avoid such aimlessness. I'm a scatter-brained, aimless mommy. But that scene is more an example of my willy-nilly brain, not so much an indication of my son's behavior, although his crankiness at the zoo was a bit over-the-top.

I know what it's like to deal with an obstinate toddler. My middle kid, Davey, used to be incredibly stubborn and was a tantrum thrower extraordinaire when he was a toddler. I used to do anything to avoid the tantrums, and the result of it was that Davey figured out exactly how to get what he wanted from me. It took his dad and I a looooong time to get him out of the habit of manipulating us, and I'd hate for you to have to go through that. Getting him out of the habit was MUCH worse than the tantrums he threw when he was a toddler.


Thank you for sympathizing but moreso thanks for the heads-up at what could be to come if we don't crack down on our little guy NOW. That's what I'm hoping to do here...straighten him out before it gets any uglier. Yes, a manipulater he IS. I'm just getting past the stage of thinking how cute everything is (isn't that cute...he's manipulating me! Admittedly it IS cute to see those tiny little gears turning in his head. But I'm quickly getting over it.)

Quick example: He learned what to say to get me out of bed in the morning (I hate mornings). When his whining and screaming only served to bury me deeper in the blankets (who wants to get out of bed to that sort of noise?), he quickly learned that I'd jump to attention if he said, "I'm hungry," or "I want to potty train." You know, responsible things that required action. Once he got me up he'd take me straight to the play room and deny that he was ever hungry or wanted to go potty in the toilet.

Gotta love him though. How is that NOT cute and witty?

OK, now back to the meat of this topic...misbehaving:

Sometimes the only way to get a child's attention is to swat them on the butt - especially if they're in the middle of pitching a fit...I know that sometimes the last thing you want to deal with is a screaming child, but.....you've got to let him know who's boss in your house, and you've got to start soon.


Point well-taken. Again, I'll just have to get over my hang-ups about feeling like a child abuser, learning where to draw the line between exercising discipline and taking out my anger on him that he causes me!! When it gets to the latter degree, I think that's why I'm so quick to not lay a hand on him at all. Often I just have to step back and count to ten...or twenty...or a MILLION before I lose my own temper.

On that note, did I fail to mention that I've got quite a temper of my own? That's probably where this discipline issue gets complicated...Not only am I learning to master a willful toddler...I'm learning to master my own temper too.

I hope that you don't think that I'm berating you about this, because I'm not; I'm trying to give you advice out of love and concern for you and your baby (and the one on the way too.


No, I truly appreciate hearing from you on this topic...it's better than wondering, "Did she read this and is she silently thinking horrible thoughts not only about my character but my poor mothering skills too?" Hehe. Nah, you're sound-minded and I appreciate hearing from you.

Btw, can I knit you a little something?).


What a kind gesture You certainly keep yourself busy doing kind deeds, worthy of emulation for sure. Thanks I'll send you an email, I think I've still got your address from some time back...

Nothing stops a tantrum dead in its tracks like a trip to a cold shower.


Wow! Yeah that would surely leave an impression. I'm glad it's worked for you guys! Only I wonder if such a strategy would serve to make my son hate the bathtub / shower area more than he already does?

Every child is different, every situation is different, so I'll continue on my quest to come up with inventive, appropriate means of reproval for my son.

How to Behave so your preschooler behaves too by Sal Severe is a great book.


Good suggestion. I actually looked for a similar title in that series long before my son's behavior became an issue. I was attracted to the "How to Behave" part because really I'm an unruly adult and it frightened me that I'd just become responsible for the upbringing of a child!!!

So I looked for it and our paltry military library in Germany didn't have it back then. I'll look for it again. Amazon perhaps. Thanks

And try rewards which are totally different from bribes. Stickers are great little rewards.
Another good suggestion, only something other than stickers would suit my son. I try to keep him away from stickers because as it stands now we've got them on walls, hardwood floors, stuck to the bottoms of our feet

Or make it a game. Do you have a stop watch? Ask him how fast he can get in his car seat and time him and then the next time see if he can beat his time. Have him race you to see who can get buckled up fastest - nothing makes their day more than beating mommy at something.
That sounds like fun! We'll try it (or something akin to it until he's able to buckle himself some day.)

...one boy on the team had a very bad temper..I would see him beam a ball at anybody near when a bad call was called against him. His parents always looked embarrased and would look away. They never did anything. I couldn't believe it. They left him unchecked.

When he was 15 he committed suicide. His father found him hanging in the basement. I think he did so to spite his parents to tell the truth. He was an angry undisciplined young man. He was a wild child, never tamed. His parents have alot of regrets.


*Sigh* It's things like this that make me walk on eggshells when it comes to parenting. Damned if you do, damned if you don't so often seems to be the case. Perhaps his parents were trying to take what they thought was the loving, hands-off approach but it backfired big time.

Yeah I definitely want to avoid screwing up that much. I wonder if they saw any red flags as early as toddler-hood...I wonder if they went through what I'm going through and failed?

I'm glad to be here now and to be thinking about how to raise my son, and I plan to succeed. I really want the best for him (and our whole family!)

"Even a child is known by his doings; whether his work be pure and whether it be right."

This means that even the activities of a child in his early years point to the direction his life is taking.
Wise words. That rightly chases away others' well-intentioned cliche's I hear so much of..."Boys will be boys"...or..."It's the terrible two's" BAH! My instincts tell me otherwise. I'll cling instead to that proverb you quoted Dawn. Thanks. Also for suggesting the books "Dare to Disipline" or "Strong Willed Child." Both by James Dobson in another thread. Good stuff.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Nothing stops a tantrum dead in its tracks like a trip to a cold shower.

hee hee hee. I can just see that one. I'll save it for when my kids are older and it will be more of a shock!

One thing I would say is not to give him a choice if he doesn't have a choice.

A toddler SHOULDN'T have a choice. YOU make the decisions at this point. It's like a magician." Pick one" If you pick A he turns it over, if you pick B he lets you"save" it and turns over A. Either way the choice is an illusion. Kids are the same way at that age. You decide what will happen and then allow them to make (basically) meaningless choices. Red or blue, PB&J or ham....going to the gym? not his choice. And I tell my 4 year old that. "This is not something that you get to make a choice about. This has to happen."

And I really don't think he responds to sharp spankings

My husband likes to grab the kids by their shoulders, get on their level and eyeball to eyeball give them infomation/correction in a very serious tone. For some reason that works better than swatting or yelling. I just wish it worked when I did it!

Again, I'll just have to get over my hang-ups about feeling like a child abuser

I grab them and set them firmly in "time out" For me it is any wall or corner that a nose can touch. a minute per year is usually good for most stuff. and when they are little, just the act of putting them in time out or the corner with a firm (but calm) attitude from me works. I make them stay till they calm down. My 18 month knows that "if you want to whine or throw a tantrum, you have to do it in the corner" And when she is calm, she comes out again.

Some good advice from a parenting magazine that I've taken to extremes. I give him choices with EVERYTHING now.

Eeek! Like i said, he is too young to decide anything except whether he wants to sleep on his back or his side. EVERYTHING else is your job to pick. You can let him "choose" from limited options (all of which are within your pre-set decision)

Getting him out of the habit was MUCH worse than the tantrums he threw when he was a toddler

YES, House-breaking a kid is not easy and it's usually much harder than putting up with bad behaviour. But just think how bad the behaviour will be in 5 or 10 years. At that point house-breaking them will be MUCH harder. Save stress later and train them to live up to standards.

Or make it a game. Do you have a stop watch?

Make it a game BEFORE the issue comes up. Get a stopwatch or just "race" around the house first. No stress involved. Make paperballs and race to throw them away. Practice Jumping as high as you can (or high enough to get into the tub or bed or the car) My kids race to bed and it makes bedtime sooooo much nicer.

I think you are a good, but overly doting mom. They have to learn eventually that life ain't fair, you don't always get what you want, you don't always have someone entertaining you and whining never works....especially as an adult. Lessons like this are hard to swallow, but even harder to take if you didn't learn them as a child.