Draginol Draginol

AI: I'm so excited!

AI: I'm so excited!

New Stuff!

It's been decided that we are going to do a 1.X.2 release. Don't know when. But there's little tweaks and changes we want to make. The team fixed some glitches that have been reported on the forums.

But for me, it gives me a chance to start having some fun with the AI.

Stupid AI

At lower levels, I want the AI to play stupidly. I don't want them to just be super smart but economically starved. There are a bunch of APIs in there for the AI that will cause it to make "newbie" mistakes.  But I want to do more of them.

Smart AI

Yay! They're making me an UpgradeShip API for the AI players. Now I can really bring hell down on people. Whohaha.   I also have a few other ideas too.

I've got a bunch of other stuff in mind as well.  Will have to make sure it can be done without slowing down the game.  One of the biggest things I want to work on is having the AI be more effective at controlling their territory militarily.

Stay tuned.

49,793 views 38 replies
Reply #26 Top
I might be wrong about this, but I think that some of the influence starbase spamming might be for the purpose of increasing range.


I understanded that only planets and starbases increase range, influence has nothing to do with range.


Brad: When is the 4 starbases per sector rule going to be implemented? This is the one rule Iam waiting for the most, not forgetting the new fleet system

Ps. I liked that you tuned the tech trading between AI, I think it should be even more harder. What I would love is a No techt rade and maybe a tech trade only allowed between alliances option. Well these are just personal wishes, keep it up StarDock
Reply #27 Top

Is there an issue, or was he just tossing out garbage because he doesn't have a handle on the game yet?


Paying for un-used social production, research bonuses not being close to the amount stated, no improvements actually giving the listed improvements (or even close), the game's "design decision" to not do proper math...

I'm not exactly sure hows URLs work on this forum sofrware, so here's a basic link:

https://forums.galciv2.com/?ForumID=274&AID=105129

I have a 'handle' on the game as much as the developers.
Reply #28 Top
I totally agree with the 'AI needs to understand the advantage of being the attacker' thing. The AI (even on intelligent) is rather passive when it comes to space battles. Which is especially deadly because it rarely bulds ships with strong defenses.
I have won several wars just because of that fact... both our fleets hanging in space, more or less equally strong, and the AI rarely attacks my fleets... lets me pick what to fight and leaves me the advantage of attack.

Another odd thing I saw during my current game: The Drenging had a research resource 3 squares next to their home planet - and never used it, even though they sent constructors all over the map to get other resources. Don't know how this could happen.

Anyway, in spite of this issues, the AI is still pretty impressive and I'm looking forward to the next updates.
Reply #29 Top
I just posted an article about AI (and some game) weaknesses Link, I hope they can be helpful.
Reply #30 Top
I'll add my support to many of the ideas posted here. I've played 1 game on normal and one game on Challenging and won both games rather easily (although the AI was 'smarter' on Challenging).

Things I noticed:

1. The AI did respond to my ship building by modding their ships. I noticed on my Challenging game at first the AI was using beam weapons without any defense and by the mid part of the war they had changed and were making ships with rail guns and shields. However, it did not tend to group their ships very smartly. I often found one better ship with a number of inferior ships in their fleets. Since I was the attacker 98% of the time, I usually took out their most powerful ship in the first salvo. Had they grouped their ships better, they would have stood a better chance.

2. The AI doesn't research speed technologies enough. My fleets were moving 7pc/wk from the start of the war, the AI flleets never got beyond 2 pc/wk. It was easy to dictate the point of the battle. The very few times that the AI attacked first, they would almost always take 3 of my 4 medium ships out - still losing all 6 of theirs. In the cases I attacked first, most of the time I lost no ships but had 1 badly damaged. Obviously attacking first is a strong advantage. IMO this is a bit too strong of an advantage. Is it possible to consider alternating ship attacks? The attacker's strongest ship still goes first, but the defenders strongest ship fires next? This would immediately make the AI much tougher IMO.

3. The AI still doesn't have a clue to how much a tech trade costs. I'm constantly getting the AI asking to trade something like 'Mass Driver Theory' for 'Enhanced Miniturization' as if they were equal. If that's the way the AI makes trades between themselves, it's no wonder the AI has a tech trading problem. IMO, if you attached a research cost to each tech and programmed the AI to only trade if the research costs (or reseach cost plus credits) is equal, it would slow down some of the AI tech trading. Another idea would be to impose a 5 turn wait between acquiring a tech via trade and the ability to re-trade that tech to another AI. The AI needs to be smarter about Tech trades too. For example, if it sees that I have speed technologies and I'm trying to trade Planetary Improvements to it - the AI should mention 'Hey. I know Planetary Improvements is nice, but I'm not interested in getting anything else until Warp speed technology is on the table!'. This would force the player (and other AI's ) to perhaps deal techs that they would rather keep if they wanted to trade other technologies to the AI players.

4. The AI needs to protect Transports/Freighters/Constructors better during war. I constantly destroyed constructors that were sent out right through the middle of my fleets unescorted. Transports have already been mentioned.

5. As has been mentioned, the AI still makes poor decisions in many cases about what it builds on a planet. It's clear to me that perhaps it's not deciding what purpose the planet will serve once it acquires it. On some planets I've captured, the AI has 5-7 embassies, other planets have 3-4 entertaiment complexes. It doesn't always do a good job of taking advantage of square bonuses as has been mentioned. Also, I do still find planets (especially the minors) that have 4-5 farms built.

6. Minors need to protect their planets better. In many cases they have enough technology to build decent defensive ships, but I always seem to find that their planets have maybe only 1-2 ships in orbit along with 3-4 frieghters. Minors should be restricted to building starports within the 8 adjacent space squares. I constantly find minors that build starports half-way around the galaxy.

7. The AI doesn't seem to fleet their transports. It also doesn't seem to build them until they are needed. What seems to happen is that AI decides it needs a troop transport, builds one and sends it out to it's destination unescorted. At least on Challenging, it should build a fleet of transports in a controlled area, fleet them up and protect them.

8. At least in the games I've played so far, the AI seems to be reluctant to press it's advantage over weaker Civs. In the last game I played the Drengin had the Alterians down to it's home system for most of the game. They were at war 2-3 times and the Drengin never finished off the Alterians. While I'm not sure why, the Alterians didn't seem to have any better ships (and far less of them) than the Drengin.

9. Final thought, does the AI do an agressive enough job of trying to form Alliances? So far in the games I've played, I've never seen the AI make an Alliance with another civization. In fact, in my last challenging game, the Knox (whom I was at war with) were very friendly with the Drengin and had they in fact Allied - it would have caused me a ton of trouble as my home territory was pretty much empty as all my attack ships were half way across the galaxy fighting the Knox. I've also never be offered an alliance by a AI civilization. Even the Alterians, of which I had a close relationship and were at war with the Drengin never called an offered one (I know I would have if the situations were reversed). Might be another thing to look at (perhaps alliances between the AI only comes on Intelligent level - but if that's the case maybe you should look at implimenting it on Chanllenging IF the AI civilization is at war and is losing badly).

My 2 cents.
Reply #31 Top
GC has always been about an intelligent AI rather than a heavily bonused AI. So I'm glad it's getting some work. Even on "Genius", I have yet to see it play a strong game.

I second Citizen Nitey's list. Personally, I'd give priority to #2 (use of Speed and preference for attacking) and #5 (sensible development of its planets).
Reply #32 Top
I understanded that only planets and starbases increase range, influence has nothing to do with range.


Yes and when you build a starbase in open space you have to choose one of three kinds: Economy, influence and military. So unless one of the other two make sense for the spot they are being put in, might as well do influence. Not that they are building it to really increase their influence in the sector but they want to extend their range and you have to choose one of the 3 kinds when doing that.

Reply #33 Top
Im not sure i am late for suggestin things but i write anyway

1. Enemy should use patrols around their borders

2. Escorts for larger vulnerable vessels (constructors,colonyships)

3. starbases should atleast have 1 fighter in the influence range. Just for support


Oh and please include so you can build a spaceship from scratch then the computer calculates the space availible. And more custom parts and maybe a option to color the vessels in anyway you want, ingames
Reply #34 Top
The AI:s biggest problem to me is their ships. Especially early in the game.

In my current game (intelligent AI of course) I use 2 heavy fighter designs, one for attack and one for defense.
The first with two engines, 3 lasers and one support giving them Attack 3 & Speed 6.
The second with one engine and 4 lasers giving them Attack 4 & speed 4.

Every one of the nine AI races heavy fighter designs that is identical. ONE weapon (often missile giving them 2 in attack), ZERO engines.
This is a major problem, the AI has never attacked one of my fleets once. My defense ships has never been in combat because I always get to attack. And I also always win because my ships are so much better, sometimes I win with no losses at all when evensized fleets meet.
Sure, the AI:s ships cost less and are boosting their ego because they have so many but that doesn't help them when I'm invading their planets.
Drengin, the highest military power in the game, has begun building frigates and cruisers. I thought that he finally would begin to make some good ships. Unfortunatly they are exactly the same, one weapon and nothing else.

Hopefully you will get them to build some decent ships. At the moment, I don't feel threatened.
Reply #35 Top
I for one am happy to hear the AI will become smarter and don't understand players difficulty beating it above level Normal. I agree with the above posts that even on Intelligent the AI is making some basic mistakes!

So far I have won the first 4 missions of the Dread Lords campaign on level Tough (meaning the AI is set at Intelligent). In the last one I finally encountered the Dread Lords. In this mission I killed 75 ships of the Dread Lords, Drengin, and Yor, losing only 1 constructor ship!

How did I win every battle without losing any combat ships even when battling a Dread Lords frigate (the most powerful ship I encountered in the mission lasting almost 2 years)?

I made sure I was always the attacker and that I had enough fire power to destory the defender in 1 round. The Dread Lord's powerful weapons mean nothing if they are destroyed before they can fire!!! The few times I failed the kill them in the first round thus allowing them to fire, my heavy fighters had leveled up enough to survive a hit even from their frigates. Remember a ship with attack 40 does on average damage 20.

To ensure you are the attacker you need to have fast fleets and see the enemy before he sees you (or only sees you after using up his movement points). Placing a Warp engine on your combat ships will give them movement 6 and even your ships without engines will have movement 3 (Researching Warp gives +2 movement to all ships) which is enough to take out Drengin and Yor attacking ships with movement 2! Building "Eyes of the Universe" allowed me to switch from defensive to offensive mode. Now my fleets could safely move away from my planets and starbases and hunt down the Dread Lords, Drengin, and Yor!

Researching Plasma III beam weapons allowed me to place attack 6 on my fast ships and with attack bonuses of 95% (50% race bonus + 2 X 22% from mining military resources + 1% from an anomally) giving me attack 11. 4 of these in a fleet gives the fleet attack 44, enough to usually take out a Dread Lords frigate with 22 hit points in a single round of fire!

By design the Dread Lords don't combine their advanced ships in fleets; otherwise, we could not defeat them. However, I never encountered a Drengin or Yor fleet with more than 2 ships but did encounter many stacked ships that I picked off one by one!!! In a previous mission when I parked my attack fleets next to the Drengin worlds it kept building constructors!!!

Maybe the Dread Lords will be harder to beat in the next mission. Maybe I'll see their battleships!

Oh bye the way in the end mission summary my military score was lower than the Drengin! I destroyed 75 enemy ships, lost only 1(a constructor), and lost 1 Billion troops invading the Drengin planet giving me a score of 502. They only destroyed 1 enemy ship, lost 24 ships, and lost 10 Billion troops due to my invasion of their planet giving them a score of 599! What gives!!! I created various screenshots of the mission including this report but I don't have an URL I can post them to. I know there are sites that give out free web space (e.g., Geocities, later bought by Yahoo) and I think my ISP does to so maybe I'll add them later.
Reply #36 Top

They put in another API in today that the AI can access I think you guys will like.

I won't tell you what I"m going to use it for but I bet some of you can guess:

float pShip->TurnsToReachPoint(ulTileX,ulTileY);

 

Reply #37 Top
float pShip->TurnsToReachPoint(ulTileX,ulTileY);

I'll put my money on the AI evaluating speed better: How many turns will it take for the AI to get from A to B? And how many turns is the enemy ship really away from an AI planet? - Things like that, sounds good!
Reply #38 Top
Every AI improvement has been a welcome attack at my common playstyles. The tech brokering thing doesn't work near as well now, which is nice since the races have more unique tech paths. Also, the emphasis on speed rather than range has really put a damper on my high-speed strike forces. I can't knife in and destroy all their resource starbases in a couple of turns anymore. Evolving AI rocks

Oh and this... float pShip->TurnsToReachPoint(ulTileX,ulTileY);

Will tell the AI whether it can reach a new colony before you can. If it can't, the colony ship will turn to a better target

-Dewar

PS:

To Quote Nighty: Obviously attacking first is a strong advantage. IMO this is a bit too strong of an advantage. Is it possible to consider alternating ship attacks? The attacker's strongest ship still goes first, but the defenders strongest ship fires next? This would immediately make the AI much tougher IMO.

I support this whole-heartedly