An easy way to become an atheist

Interesting theory.  I guess it works for those who are so self involved with materialism that they cannot see anything else of worth in their life.

An easy way to become an atheist?

Apparently look at the order of the universe as evidence of its randomness. ;~D

Thanks a lot, I choked on those #$*! things this morning.

Dr. Dim-Bulb >> it would work with anything, not just pearls. You could pray to find anything in your cup of coffee that shouldn't normally be there, regardless of material worth. You could pray to see angels dancing on the head of a pin. It's not a bad idea, fox, but god already has his tracks covered with this one. The Bible is all about people asking for signs, and sometimes they get them, and sometimes god says "You will not receive a sign, you must have faith." Of course, I don't believe in god to start with.

I can think of an easier way to become an atheist.

Read Peter Gomes' book called "The Good Book."

Myrrander... I know that is what it says, but is that what people actually do after going through the effort of the exorcise.
I think people would become as religiously benign as atheist if they do this and are commited to it.

And yes Dr Guy, you could pray that sand is in your cup, but if you told someone, someone might just put sand in your cup. That is why it is more reasonable to make it something of value. (I mean if God can giveth, God can taketh away) I never said you could keep the damb pearls. Jees.

But of course, this hasn't been proven, but it is a real possibilty.

Regards,
Fox

Ha this kinda reminds me of how I pass the potato chip rack. I say, "ok if I don't see kettle cooked salt and vinegar chips by the time I count to 3, then I will not get them.

So I count...."one one thousand, two one thousand, threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee one thousandddddddddddddddddddddd."

Ah ha. See I was meant to get them all along!

The easiest way to becoming an athiest? Close your eyes and don't think....LOL.....

I think it's harder not to see God than to see him. His fingerprints are all over the place.

Is it a matter of "can not see God" or is it "will not see God?" Big Difference.

Again, the definition of the word "atheist" seems to evade foxjazz. I think he means 'non-Christian', and that really doesn't even jive with the test above, since I know of no Christian that expects God to be an ATM machine. For his current theory to work ALL religions that have a belief in God must also believe that God is required to answer any and all prayers no matter now greedy or menial.

He matches his small-minded definition of atheism to his small-minded view of religion. In reality, both are a lot more complex than he seems to be able to comprehend. His continual need to misrepresent a belief in God tells me he isn't able to debate the concept without imposing a made-up standard to it.

He wants 'faith' to fight with both hands tied behind its back while he gives his own belief system an extra arm or two. And this is the person who keeps lauding integrity and pretending that knowledge will set you free of religion. His own lack of knowledge concerning the myraid of religions and doctrines speaks volumes.

And yes Dr Guy, you could pray that sand is in your cup, but if you told someone, someone might just put sand in your cup. That is why it is more reasonable to make it something of value. (I mean if God can giveth, God can taketh away) I never said you could keep the damb pearls. Jees.

It has nothing to do with keeping the thing.  It has everything to do with praying for materialistic things vs non-materialistic things.  Praying for someone's good health may not make it happen, but it shows a selflessness whereas praying for pearls shows only a selfishness.  To pray for things indicates a lack of concern for the world around you, and a degree of self absorbtion.

Christians can pray for things (but then they are probably CINOs anyway).  However, a crises of faith could also occur by praying for someone else and it not happening.

Actually Dr Guy, in order for you to make any value out of the "materialistic thing" is that you would have to keep it.
And it doesn't have to be so materialistic. How about an answer to a lottery ticket. No one says that God wouldn't make you lose it on the way to claim your prize.

And it isn't selfish to want personal "proof" that God exists. Whether you get pearls or not. You just seem to keep missing the mark as they say.

The definition of Atheist for baker:
One who does NOT hold a belief in God.

It is not so difficult a concept. Only people that believe in the existence of God make it difficult.
Doesn't matter what God you don't hold a belief in.

Or are you saying you don't have to have a clear thought (definition) of God to posit a belief in the existence of one.
If so, it really becomes non-sensical, because your God doesn't have even a concept (or thought) to attribute.

So no matter what "totally improbable thing" you pray for that doesn't happen, it won't happen simply because it is improbable. And it won't happen simply because there is no outside force to facilitate it happening.

Like I said, try it. At the end of the 30 days, you will no longer believe enought to give a crap one way or the other, unless your FEAR overcomes you and your scared because of a benign fear you have about the God thingy in general.

Not only that, the mere belief that states "God wants you to believe only on Faith" can only be the beginnings of a scam. Its like most monetary scams out in the real world, where they send you a counterfit check for you to cash. And because you have the cash, you think the check is for real so you spend it, only to find out you have to pay it back. And you already gave the person that send you the check a $200 processing fee.

In otherwords until you see evidence, doubt has more integral value than belief.
I mean, look at the blown up suicide bombers that get virgins evertime they get blown up. Its quite obvious.

Regards,
Fox

Wrong, atheism is the belief that there is no God, not a lack of belief. An 'ism' is something that people adhere to as a system. If you had never heard of God, then you wouldn't be an 'atheist', you'd be ignorant of the decision in the first place.

In order to say you are an Atheist, you have reached a decision about the non-existance of God. Therefore you adhere to a belief just like anyone else. You believe that there won't be any pearls in the morning, and in that way you actually SHARE that belief with the religions you are trying to smear.

And you can dance around all you like, but you've just created a straw-man, not attacked religion here. I know of no religion that predicts that God will carry out the prayer you state above, not a single one out of thousands of different flavors of belief. If you have to make up fake situations to validate your beliefs, well, you must not be willing to really face them. lol

Wake up every morning and declare to the world there isn't a God. Do it for 50 years. In the end you'll have no more a handle on the truth than anyone else. You seek to lend credence to your subjective beliefs by tying them to objective truth when no such thing exists.

Why not be more specific. Define the thing you think I don't believe in. Please, that way I will know for sure that I don't believe in it.

I have a Christian friend that may be dying. He prays that the meds he takes will help him live. Is that a material thing he isn't suppose to pray for? I mean it is material that is being prayed on. Do you think that his prayer will have any affect whatsoever on the matterial (his meds)? And if so, in what capacity.

Fox

Actually Dr Guy, in order for you to make any value out of the "materialistic thing" is that you would have to keep it.

No, that you wish for them is the telling subject.  You could have wished for world peace.  You did not.  You wished for material things.  That is telling upon itself.

"Why not be more specific. Define the thing you think I don't believe in. Please, that way I will know for sure that I don't believe in it."

Nice turn-around, but the fact is you are trying to RE-DEFINE my beliefs with the circumstance above. You are saying one thing when I believe another. Worse, you are lumping every single religion with a belief in God in with (probably non-existant) people who would have the expectation you describe.

"I have a Christian friend that may be dying. He prays that the meds he takes will help him live. Is that a material thing he isn't suppose to pray for? I mean it is material that is being prayed on. Do you think that his prayer will have any affect whatsoever on the matterial (his meds)? And if so, in what capacity."

If you had the knowledge of Christian doctrine you claim to, you could answer that question yourself. You most certainly have no right to judge the religion until you can answer a fundamental question like that. That's your problem. You are tilting with windmills of your own making, like saying you hate pizza when what you really mean is you hate spaghetti.

An Atheist comes to the conclusion that there is not God with the no more physical evidence than the believer has for accepting God. So why do you point fingers at the believer? With the parameters you set, you can't prove your side either. So, physical evidence being equal, why should I believe you over the spiritual experiences I've had?

why should I believe you over the spiritual experiences I've had?

That's what really counts. Our inner experience and intuition, and our 'inner sight', is what it's all about.

Define the thing you think I don't believe in

God is Spirit. But before you can be expected to believe in a God that is Spirit, you must first come to believe in your own spirit. Are you a spiritual being, or are you nothing more than a bundle of inanimate dust? Once you become a bit clearer on who you really are, at a deeper level, your eyes become more opened to the reality of God, who, (like our inner-self), is Spirit, which is invisible to our mortal senses.

You'll awaken to the Truth of God when you're ready, and not before. In the meantime, you're exactly where you're meant to be, in terms of your own evolution. It's certainly not a ‘bad’ thing to be an atheist, even from a religious point of view. (It actually took the highest form of innovation and intelligence for God to place us in a realm where it’s actually possible for us to believe that we are “accidents”, that there is no purpose to life, and that God doesn’t really exist. Atheism is the result of pure genius, at a divine level.) Deep down, our souls needed to know what it feels like to feel “purposelessness”, “insecurity”, “doubt”, etc, all of which are incoherent in Heaven, our real Home, but all of which are necessary to experience the full scope of wisdom, which is to be digested by the soul and transformed into positive learning. How can we know “good” without first tasting the fruits of “evil”? How can we fully appreciate security and love, without first experiencing insecurity and a sense of purposeless?

Goodness, security, joy, truth and love is our real heritage. And deep down, we already know this. Some of us just prefer being fast asleep, and like to turn a blind eye to life's deeper realities.

You wished for material things. That is telling upon itself.

That's so true

Why would anyone want to become an atheist? What is there to be gained? Gee, we would win a sense of having no purpose or hope. We would get to see life as random floating around on a sea of chaos only to blink out of existance at any moment. Yay! Who wouldn't be lining up for that great prize?!

I don't think people tend to 'try' to be atheist. I think it is the result of a lack of inspiration toward any kind of faith. I can understand it especially if you are a creature that functions on logic alone.

Not getting something you repeatedly pray for might be proof in your book that God doesn't exist but it surely doesn't qualify as proof for most.

Well not withstanding a serious change in proof, Bakerstreet and I will never agree on a definition of Atheism.

Atheism Info

Jilluser, people become atheists because atheism has some attractive phillosophy. The attraction is mostly about being in line with the world. Something Christianity is against.

And what I mean by the world, I mean real life.

Atheists (not withstanding baker's religion) want to align their beliefs with reason in which science is usually included. And they respect logict. It is NOT possible to prove a negative. And we can refer to God as the Invisible Pink Unicorn. You can prove God doesn't exist as easily as you can prove the IPU doesn't exist. The two are equally nonsensical beings that are equally provable and equally disprovable.

If your interested I am sure you can do a search on Infidels.org and peer into it.
Another good forum is "Ethical Atheist"

The two are equally nonsensical beings that are equally provable and equally disprovable.

I totally disagree. I would love to see how you 'prove' or 'disprove' either. You can't. I think you are seriously misguided. I don't know what you think "being in line with the world" gets you.

I certainly can't believe God exists. I believe there is a God but I'm not sure. I'm not christian but I would take no pleasure in being atheist. I don't understand anyone really 'wanting' to prove that when we die we are just worm food. What joy is there in that? I guess my 'faith' is based on hope. I haven't been proven otherwise either way.

It seems like there are two different atheists here. I see Fox saying "There is no God," with certainty and a high hand to God and I see Jill saying "I don't believe there is a God, I simply lack belief."

Why don't you believe? What would be stopping you from taking that step of faith?

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is: which religion are you going to choose. Because you enjoy Faith because of Hope, then you obviously want faith.

You could make up your own religion and believe whatever you want. Or you can follow someone and learn from some other religious "fanatic" I mean person.

That is a personal choice. However if your after freedom from problems like Guilt, and Fear of things that may exists because of your exercisation of faith like HELL, then I would look up atheism. It is the most reasonable position to take. Some are against reason, and that is an opinion you could side with. And if you do, how far will you go with that decision. Would you listen to the ramblings of a street person, and go Kill for your God if he ordered you to?

There are many advantages of taking the atheist phillosphy seriously. And few advantages of taking a "Faith based" phillosophy seriously.
You can still be spiritual and be an Atheist. Spirituallity is a state of mind, not a state of "belief system in godditit".

If your asking why I talk about atheism, its simply because I think it is imortant to educate others on what atheism is rather than what it is not.

And your right, God hasn't been proven right. : Repeat: IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO PROVE A NEGATIVE. It is a logical fact. So why do believers insist on asking unbelievers to prove their God doesn't exist. It goes back to the burden of proof. (if you want to use science as the way to believe in God).

However you can use faith to believe in many things. Man on Venus. Space creatures from the sea. Giant land octopuses that disapear when you peer in their direction.
I could name an infinit number of things you could believe in based on Faith. And I am sure you would enjoy yourself while doing so.

Regards,
Fox

I see Jill saying "I don't believe there is a God, I simply lack belief."

Sorry, meant to say "I certainly can't "prove" there is a God". I went on to say I 'believe' there is a God but am not sure. That doesn't make me an atheist. Atheists state there is no God. I have a feeling there is but am unsure.

Which kind of atheist are you refering.

Atheists don't necessarily state "there is no God". Atheists (most of them) say they don't believe (use faith) that God exists.
I put the link up there for ya in case you are interested.

Some atheist will say "That God your talking about "doesn't exists" " because it Contradicts itself and Contradictions necessarility make that particular assumption incorrect.

I can say "I know the Christian" God doesn't exist. I can say "The Man in the Sky" doesn't exist. I think before you can say a God doesn't exist, you would have to define God.
If we can't define God, then why would we want to say "that which can't be defined" doesn't exist.

There are many things that can't be define that do exist. And they most likely can't be defined, because they haven't been discovered yet.

I will say I hold no belief in God and have no reason to. (that is the definition of a weak atheist). And that is the position I hold which I have provided a complete explaination.
No offense to KFC, but he only uses Faith based ideas to explain things that he has faith in. Unfortunatly that isn't good enough for me, and for many others that hold my position.

Talk soon,
Fox

And your right, God hasn't been proven right. : Repeat: IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO PROVE A NEGATIVE. It is a logical fact.

Exactly. That is why your comment about being able to prove or disprove God or pink unicorns didn't make any sense.
You are also correct that people can have faith in anything they want to. Yes, I WANT hope. I WANT to believe there is much more to life and after that we don't have capability of knowing yet. I think it is equally arrogant to claim you know the answers as it is to state their simply is nothing other than what we currently know.

Our logic and the information we are currently able to process with it can only take us so far. At some point noone can explain how something came from nothing. Noone has the answer to that.

A don't have faith in any organized religion. That does not make me an atheist. That makes me a hopeful, optimistic, reasonable, logical person who is keeping her mind and heart open to possibilities that might not have presented themselves yet.

If your asking why I talk about atheism

I certainly don't question why you would talk about atheism. You have every right. I don't however see how you can claim there are more benefits to not believing than there are in believing. Also, having faith in there being a God doesn't mean you have to choose a religion. I can believe in a creator. I can believe my creator owes me nothing and that I can pray to my creator if it makes me feel better. I can believe that God set things in motion and left us to our own devices. I can also believe in God without believing in Heaven or Hell.

Fox, I think you are interjecting too many christian ideals into your arguement for or against faith of any kind. I am not christian but I can certainly appreciate the appeal of believing that someone is always watching out for you. Someone up there is loving you and will provide you with a wonderful afterlife. I don't see any downside to that.

I see the appeal of atheism over fire and brimstone based beliefs but those aren't the only two options.

Why don't you believe? What would be stopping you from taking that step of faith?

This is like asking someone why they aren't in love with someone. If it isn't there, it can't be forced. KFC, you are compelled to have faith in christianity. I am compelled to have faith in God (meaning a creator). Some people just don't have a 'feeling' at all regarding God.