Good point. I think reducing the path traits and increasing the general traits that are randomly available should solve the problem that heroes of the same path have the same traits and the random equipment makes the heroes unique, too.

i think they were trying to fix the problem of people defeating the whole game with a single hero and no cities or other units at all. i guess their strategy is to start low and then work hero power back up over a few iterations of beta patches until the community/testers agree that we have reached the sweet spot where hero power feels balanced vs. trained units.

Yep, but it increases the challenge and fun of the tactical combat.

Having each hero have their own preset chances of attributes going up each level would add to their uniqueness, too.  They'd have their own general trend of attribute increases while still advancing uniquely each time.

[quote who="Jean=A=Luc" reply="49" id="3335436"]
I really hate exp enhancing traits/perks/feats in general. They are either useless noob traps or mandatory free power that makes early leveling boring. Would hope to see them completely removed (except as starting factions traits and such).  [/quote]

This!

Xp enhancing skills are illogical, because XP is the means by which you aquire those skills.

If people feel these are necesary, then perhaps the XP requirements to level up should be reduced. but either way, XP boosting skills have no place. They're about as logical as a skill which gives you a skill point for learning it. which is to say, horribly stupid.

The question is if you take those away, how do you flesh out the trees?

Well, it would be good if each Path or Sub-Path got instrinsic stat bonuses for each x levels, so you don't have to spend level-ups just boosting a single stat.  Global unrest reduction for Commanders (or a Commander Sub-Path), Attack for Warriors, Defense for Defenders,  Accuracy and/or Dodge (although Dodge bonuses couldn't be too high) for Assassins, and Increased Spell Mastery or Increased Spell Damage for Mage Path or particular Sub-Paths.  I don't think a level-up should be used JUST to get a small stat boost, it can have one, but it shouldn't be the main focus of the trait pick.

And yes - heroes need to level-up at a greater rate too.

Indeed and I agree with the choice.The hero should be there to benefit the army and not be the actual army.

Right now Heroes stand for supports in armies wether it is via stat boosting (commanders, defenders), damage & crowd control (mages) or summoning (mainly mages), which I think is the way to go.

The major problems in LH imho comes from:

1) the swarm bonus, which negates entirely the point of having a warrior hero (or sovereign) who will get oneshot, several times during a game and to a certain extent, defenders in the late middle game onward who can't withstand more than a couple of hits.

i.e : my last in game in Ridiculous, Ridiculous difficulty on a standard map, I finally decided to put my lvl 12 Defender sovereign on the front line to see if he could hold a flank. He soaked up 2 hits from infantry units equipped with maces&longswords (if I recall correctly from a group of 4 city defenders and a group of 5 trained longswordmen). He had 86 hp and 40 defense. He got hit for something like ~80 hp off from those attacks. Pretty close one... I kinda expected he would do better since I outfitted him in full light plate armor ( 1100 Gold total).

2) Inability to choose traits of heroes that are recruited above level 1. Recruited heroes from the late early game onward, will often come up level 5-7. Without the potential perks, level 5 heroes will usually get to level 7 before the end of the game and level 7 heroes will almost systematically never get to lvl 8 because of the very, very, very slow grinding they have to overcome to reach it. Even if they reach level 8 and unless they are mages without the knowledge perk, they will probably never get any other level.

The real issue here is that you get a shiny new hero. But then you are unable to do anything with it because he does not have the appropriate traits (a.k.a 2 or 3 potential perks with knowledge for mages), hence its customization is impossible and you have a promising young mage, novice in 3 schools of magic but who will never be able to cast any AoE, curse or buffs spells. => So unless your sovereign is a defender with +hp/lvl traits to afford one, maybe two paragon spells (and even there it is basically a question of wether you'd rather have Air II for tutelage or Fire II, to get some damage out of him for a couple of flame darts), you are pretty much *censored*.

3) The fact that you never get really high level heroes (unless you play a faction with wanderlust). Assuming you capitalize on potential traits and knowledge if available. Getting from 1-6 is pretty straightforward. Getting from 6-10 takes some time but feels great. Getting from 10 to 12 takes a long time but still feels okay I guess. And then, well then unless you are a major warmonger, quest-thirsty, monster hunter like I am, then you you will probably never see the level 14 cap where some significant specialization of you hero is finally available.

But even at level 14-16 heroes are just getting halfway through one of their specific trait line.

Now I tend to wrap up my games relatively quickly due to the difficulty level ( expert and ridiculous ), And you could say that in a 1000 turn game then you have time to get much higher in level with your heroes, which i would again disagree with for the following reasons:

- Heroes recruited without xp% traits will NEVER reach past level 9.

- Assuming you don't (or do) kill everybody or win a SoM or an alliance victory, then clearing the map will probably require you to play until turn 320 ish.

- Letting time go by in higher difficulty is EXTREMLY risky due to letting other factions rising to power.

So there still is 680 turns of experience we'll never see in our games.

1) Honestly I'm fine with how heroes are right now, although I do agree that a bit more customization via skills could be great.

2) I think a drop in the shop price for all armor pieces would greatly benefit the weak spot in which heroes are right now, just as the price drop in weapons and trinkets allow for better customization right now.

Now when people come up with the idea of removing xp% traits like potential, and in general any xp% boost from spell or items I have to say that you have to tread carefully on this one. I don't think anyone would appreciate not reaching any levels past level 8-10 on there sovereign and lower levels on their main heroes. Unless of course, the xp needed to reach the next level is massively lowered and/or we are showered in one ability and one trait each time we level up. But I'm still very skeptical about it.

Well, the +% xp perk could be removed, and the xp for all heroes augmented. I'm agree the leveling is really slow, and unlocking some perk that just give a base +bonus isn't really rewarding.

Another problem is at each game i've done, in the first turns I quickly got like 2-3 heros + my sov (depending of quests) and I never got enough soldiers for support more than 1 army at this point (perhaps i don't handle the begining right, dunno), and since parking heroes in cities don't give them xp, they just sit here doing nothing. Like said in another thread, I prefer the endless space and how it's handle governor.

I think the heroes should unlock more slowy?

Getting more xp and easier leveling, and perhaps option like 2 skill pts / level, why not. For the sov, since it's your first guy and it will be the most advanced in level, why not add a sovereign unique class tree? With perks depending of kingdom/empire & faction, more spell etc... It would make him more unique compared to other champions, and with more perk to choose will avoid to have him expert in all aeras.

The new swarm system is nice, but it render most 1 troop units like champions pretty weak. I think defender & warriors should get some perk/active skills that could reduce/negate the swarm bonus so they could get more survivality. Another option : why not be able to fusion your champions with normal troops? Creating a new unit with your champion + 2 followers ? So when getting hit the followers and killed first.

I wouldn't have a problem with a +EXP sov creation trait, or if a few champions started with it.  But I agree these don't belong in the skill trees, at least not 'alone': if they were paired up with other significant abilities I might be ok with it.

I'm not sure people are complaining so much about the lack of random so much as the lack of true hero progression.  In FE I rarely had a level up that did not contain a "rare" trait.  I didn't always choose the rare trait - opting for an uncommon trait because it made more sense for the game situation...  But the powerful traits were available at every level.  Now in LH I just competed my first game and did not unlock a single powerful trait.  It simply takes too long and too many levels to get them.