I have three thoughts:

1)  Separate weapon/armor/accessory production from Unit production.  Armaments should be a global resource.  A sovereign should be forced to forecast or at least be relatively prepared for future unit production.

2)  There should be an incredible wide range of resources that relate exclusively to the production of armaments, with a wide range of "recipes" for the production of armaments to match.  Some of these resources should be mined from static resources on the ground -- others from the legion of random monsters roaming the countryside.  The armaments should require strategic decisions as to the role of the soldier as opposed to load up a unit with as many badass armaments as possible.

3)  A unit should somehow be much more than the sum of his armaments + an hp bump as a result of additional training.

I think a lot of people are ultimately missing heavenfall's point about units and most of the resource chain ideas which have been put out there. The issue that Heavenfall is talking about is the idea that unit's ultimately lack diversity and so the best strategy is simply to mass produce the best unit you can as fast as you can. If you consider that, all weapons/armors are basically the same but with different stat boosts, each unit you build is just another "upgraded peasant". The real challenge for tactical combat and ultimately the fun of the game is to add combat roles which diversify the combat experience. If you consider AOW as an example, each race has 4 tiers of troops, yet there is not an inherent advantage to simply building tier 4 troops. At each tier, different units are given to the player which augment the kinds of strategies which are employable by the player. This is something that should be carefully considered and implemented into Elemental, as it is this kind of diversity which gives different players the ability to utilize strategies beyond a simple mix/max.

The second point he made about rare resources is not a push towards a complex resource system but a valid point about limitations on building super units. There is no need to make a incredibly complex resource/improvement system, when this entire process can be abstracted by the use of multiple rare resources. Consider, if one wants to make a enchanted swordsman, it might cost crystal and a rare fire mana resource. This would place an non arbitrary limit on your production of these units, while also promoting diplomacy or land wars over these scant resources. If you look at reality, it is this idea of resource scarity which has driven nation's to war and peace.

In general, I am actually not a fan of global resources. While our world does in fact have semi global resources, this is a fairly modern invention based upon an established infrastructure of trade. Once possible, I would love to make a mod where all resources but gold become local, yet resources can be moved via caravan from one place in an empire to another. I think this would be as complex a resource system as I would like.

Hey here's an idea. Why not make resources (except gildar and materials) limited? When you have mined all the iron in your mine you will need to find more elsewhere. Also, when you win a battle you get to recycle the equipment of your opponent. Say if a unit cost 1 iron to build, you scoop that iron up from the battlefield in loot. Or if you like, scoop up a percentage of that 1 iron.

There could also be a "monster blood" resource you get from killing... well monsters. Or more rare things, like dragon scales etc. In that way you can combine action elements with resource gathering and then be able to build a few unique units.

What I'm trying to say is, perhaps you can develop the resource system by adding more ways of aquiring resources? Without turning it into grinding of course...

But it does make unit design more interesting, since you might actually have to design and build units that does not have the best armor or weapons.

And maybe new resources could be found by research (as we already can), by casting spells or by doing quests?

I don't think this post accurately depicts the real tone of the current mod community, with respect to resources. I can tell you from first hand knowledge that improvement and resource chaining is already possible in Elemental and the mod community has already begun to exploit resources as workarounds for other mod limitations. As a modder who has spent alot of time working with custom resources, I can easily say the the problem is not Clay Pits and Forests all return some abstract resource "Material". If you really wanted to make a more complex system, simply mod your clay pits to give  a clay resource instead of a material resource. Then add a couple of buildings with a clay requirement and you have the beginnings of any kinds of wonderous resource/improvement chain you would like. The real problem with resources from the mod side is a set of fairly important limitations from the way other game systems handle resources. These are :

1) Resources numbers should be able to be hidden from various display boxes. That is, If I make a custom local resource to use as a game mechanic and not a direct user perspective, I should be able to hide the resources in the city display.

2) Buildings should be able to have a resource requirement before built or even being shown as buildable. Currently, the game does this for buildings which require other buildings, but not for the requirement of certain resources. I would love to make buildings which are only available to cities with a resource income of type x.

3) Caravans are one resource type units. I would like it if a caravan could be set to import/export resources. This would allow for even more incredible resource chains to be created by modders, who want this type of functionality.

Caravans do need an overhaul, and that technically is part of an economy system.  With more specialized cities, they could definitely play a much more important role.  But whatever the case, it's really hard to discuss a caravan system unless we know what we are going to be carting around. 

Caravans carting stuff around?  Nooooo..... (leaps from elemental cliff never to be seen again)  Seriously this would be so tedious micro.  Having to constantly check which cities have how much of what and moving all those (already disheartening) caravans around each turn with a list of where the dozens of them are going in hand.  Nah.  And letting wander around by themselves on auto is just a recipe for death.  Colonization had this caravan transport idea and it drove me barmy - that was what you ended up spending all your time doing, boring.

Complex resources - yay.  But make the choices interesting.  Not just iron for swords vs. iron for armor but also iron to make a blacksmith (the anvil ain't made out of wood!), etc.  Of course you could have swordsmiths and armor makers - two different buildings...

p.s.  On a different note how about getting rid of the ridiculous shop (or balancing it if it's too embedded in the fantasy genre).  If I want to give a hero a spear and a padded cuirass currently I'm up for 48 gildar.  But to equip a peasent with same it costs me 8 gildar and 5 materials.  So 1 material is worth 8 gildars?  Come on, a spear's a spear and if I can make them out of materials for my peons I can make them out of materials for my heroes.  D&D couldn't do this because you weren't managing cities, sticking to a ridiculous gold only economy for heroes just doesn't make sense.

@feelotraveller - "Carting" was used as a general term to reference caravans moving resources, regardless of the caravan mechanic.  It wasn't meant to be taken literal.

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Just some more thoughts...

With a sophisticated economy, and more defined resources (i.e. not generic), it immediately adds a layer of strategy to the game beyond the economy.  Resources in the world immediately become more valuable.

The current system, that clay pit produces materials.  It has trivial value to me because I can just settle over here and occupy this forest.  However, that same clay pit and forest, when producing clay and wood, immediately have their value increased simply by producing their defined resources (clay and wood are used as an example here).  I now need to weigh out making a play against my opponent for that clay pit.

The game is immediately more interesting and challenging simply by adding a more elaborate resource system.

More concepts I'd like (as generalities)

In the early and mid game, cities cannot make everything.  A town might be able to make horses, but not armor (horse but no iron resource within range), or a city may be able to add enchant weapons but not make them (crystals but no iron)

To do that, you'd need a good troop upgrading system, which is something Elemental lacks entirely at this moment.

If they can't find some resources, they can make use of the resources that they do find. A sword can be made out of items other than just iron.  Civilizations use the resources available to them to make the best tools/weapons/armor that they can.  This can only be considered a "limiting" or "unbalancing" quality if you choose to look at it like this.  Instead, it adds flavor and uniqueness to your empire.  A spear can be just as effective as a sword, even if they are made of different materials.

Also, you don't necessarily need to make the game 100% dependant on the resources.  Instead, you can use resources to enhance the game and its mechanics. 

A guild/black market system was also mentioned where "rare" resources could be obtained, for a price.  As long as any player/AI had access to the resource, it would be accessible in time, but at a much higher cost and at limited availability.  It's a matter of discussing the topic and flushing out the possibilities.

Other than that, if the implementation feels too unbalanced (balance is not necessarily a prerequisite of excellent turn-based strategy games, by the way), map generation can be configured to help distribute the natural resources.  Computers are pretty good at those types of calculations.  Personally, however, I don't want my empire to be balanced.  I want it to be unbalanced.  I want to win the game.  If someone has something that I want/need, I have to strategize to take it or find another source or find another solution.  Elemental is a tough game set in a tough world, after all.

The idea of this thread is to explore the possibilities.  That is what I am doing.

This entire thread is a matter of taste.  This discussion is about opinions and the things we would like the resource system to encapsulate.  But, you are only half right.  The "interesting" description is an opinion.  The "challenging" description was proven in my previous paragraph.

You reference Civilization and Total War, With all due respect to you and those games, this is not Civilization or Total War.  This is Elemental.  A turn-based strategy game in a role-playing world.  A "role-playing" world implies a world that is vivacious, interesting, and worthy of exploring.  I don't see that now.  I don't see that in Civ or TW.  I want to see something interesting.  This type of system adds uniqueness to Elemental.  It attempts to makes the world something more than a generic, vanilla game board that we are sliding pieces over.  If I wanted to play Civ or TW, I would play those games.  I want something more.

Now, it's nice that you chose two games that fit your argument, but there are other successful and fun games that have more complex economic systems, such as Dawn of Discovery and Settlers, to name two, too.  (I threw that last "too" in there just to use all versions of "to/two/too" )

This type of system also adds a lot to the replayability of the game.  You never know what to expect around every corner.  Is it that resource that you have been looking for to enhance your legion?  Right now, there is nothing that adds that layer of wonder to exploration.  Now, it's "Yeah, another material resource.  Now I can can make those high quality material swords/spears/armor/buildings that I have always wanted."  I want to explore beyond that mountain to find that silver mine that enhances my gold mine and mint and give my economy a boost... or I can use that silver to enhance my spears/arrows so they have a keener edge and fly more true.  Heck, maybe I can use them against those pesky werewolves that have been plaguing my northern farming village.

The thing is, with the quality of AI Stardock provides, they would.  The AI is going to use these systems quite well, AI's tend to be good at this sort of thing, and Brad's an exceptionally good AI programmer.   Also, it's late game where I worry the most about tediousness.   Automation can get rid of some of that, but if it's a process 99% of people will automate, it may need to be rethought as a mechanic (does not mean that it's a bad mechanic, just that you have to think hard about it).

Also, complex does not have to be tedious.  I found Victoria tedious, Hearts of Iron unplayably tedious,  yet enjoy Europa Universalis- so for me at least, the line falls between those two games.    That said, you did think of a good idea- bone swords/spears for civs that lack iron.   As for spear/sword/staff- I'd like to see the type of weapon matter more.  Playing Din's Curse has given me some ideas for abilities and maybe how to do this also.  Complexity in the forms of interactions that are automatic are a lot more fun then microing things left and right.

Each time I post one of these my ideas changes: here's what it's at now.

Base Resources: Materials/ Wood/ Iron / Gold/ Mana/ Horses/ Crystals- that's it.  Anything more might be overdoing things.  I would dump Wargs as a resource.  Horses are too rare as is, and splitting it up makes mounted warfare pretty rare in Elemental.  Not to mention Kraxis being unable to use horses is flat-out illogical.

Things such as the clay pit, will provide materials, but also a bonus to building production speed, based on proximity, for towns connected to it via road.

An exchange that can be built by civs mid-game, in order to sell excess resources, and buy surplus, determined by the civs themselves.  Maybe this isn't guaranteed to appear in every game, but only if things stay peaceful enough.  Resources will fetch something on the market even if no civ wants them (civilians might)  Direct trades are still possible, and would be a better return.  Ai work may be needed to get this right, but I think Sins did if I recall correctly.

Resources can be consumed to provide advanced buildings.

Example: A Stable produces horses.  You could spend horses to get a breeding farm, which could produce racing hoses (more speed) or warhorses (can carry heavy armor troops,)

Example #2: An enchantment shop might require materials+ crystals.

One thing I am unsure on: should these structures have non-gold maintenance costs also?  If so, I'd  suggest the maintenance costs be based on proximity, to encourage specialization, and maybe to discourage generiknight in Plate+3  with Warhammer #244.  Also, troops in the field should require in this case other mainitenance as well,  This might encourage the use of cheap peasantry even in the late game, which should be encouraged, and use of the market.  Supply trains for armies or magic, along with better roads, could reduce these costs.  You want to station that army of elite knights halfway across the map, it's going to cost you hard.  Sending a hero and some veterans in leather armor and spears will be more cost-effective- maybe send a caravan also to build some roads.  Heroes could have promotions that further reduce these costs, like Animal Husbandry to reduce maintence cost for horses in the stack, or armorsmith for iron, or fletcher for food.

That said: unit creation mechanics need to change to allow for upgrading of units, provided the town is capable of the upgrade.  A town with an enchantment shop could upgrade a sword to a sword+2, a town with an armory could upgrade a peasant's club to a sword, leather armor, and shield.  This will add micro though- but it already applies to heroes.  Item shops in towns woulld also be based on the town itself.

Resource Tiles can be improved multiple times to improve production rates, though this will be expensive in population required and with diminishing returns.

I think what I suggested would be a good for complexity, without adding a ton of micromanagement.

Yes, I had specifically discussed this and had broken ground on possibilities regarding just this.  This is why I used terms like "elegant" and "sophisticated."  There is a solution out there that provides complexity while still being streamlined.  The goal is to find that perfect hybrid.

This would also blow the door wide open for the modders to make as simple or complex system as they with to pursue.

Continuing, and addressing this:

This could be anything handled with a resource manager AI component that you can enable/disable with the check of a box so you can micromanage everything yourself or let the system do it for you.  All very similar to the options that are available to us now in the game with various systems.  Thus, players that do not like this component can set it to be automated, therefore matching the AI opponent's same abilities(both use the same mechanic), so neither side would have an "advantage."

Excellent post Kenata, that's what I've been trying to say.

 I in part referenced the EU series to counter the gamer-too-stupid argument.  As you said, we can handle complexity, but that's not why we bought Elemental.