I pirated Demigod » Forum Post by Coma

Demos ... no demos ... the people that planned on buying this game

when it came out, read the previews. This game has been talked about

on the net for months. This so called, I need a demo before I buy this

game IMO " mute " REMEMBER this is MY OPINION ....

I prefer reading the previews and I select my games based on who made

them. GasPowered Games has a very good track record for making good

games. Supreme Commander and the Dungeon Siege series. Also, Stardock

games are top notch too.

As far as demos go ... I think it's a waste of time and resources for a very

well known company IMHO ...

I prefer them working on contain for the game over adding a demo ...

OH ... about pirating software ... not cool .... I don't do it ... I prefer

buying it. A lot of good software companies have gone down the tubes

di to pirated software. So, do your part and BUY IT ...

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Quoting mmealman,

reply 25

The problem with taking the moral ground like this is that it doesn't work. I mean, look at MP3 downloads. The entire MP3 format is popular because people were pirating music on Napster. People do it today via torrents and 5 years from now it'll be another distribution format. Most everyone downloads music and these same people would never steal a physical CD from a store shelf.

But they do it with games, music or movies because it's digital and they all rationalize it "well, I never would've bought it anyway and it's not like I'm diminishing anything by making a copy, so why not?".

I don't think you can change that and honestly even though people will say "Demigod didn't have a demo, that's why I pirated it" I really really doubt piracy is reduced a whole lot when a game has a demo.

Totally agree with you, I don't think doing an early demo would decrease piracy at all. I just take offense to the rationale that it is ok just because its digital intellectual property instead of physical. Your right though, with the interconnectivity of the internet, the pirates will always find some new way to steal things, and new justifications for why it is ok.

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Quoting badken,

reply 10

See, here's the thing about "try before you buy" piracy.

It's not your decision to make.

The creators of a game are the ones who get to decide how their product is copied and sold. This notion is codified by centuries of property law.

If there's not a demo for a game, you do not have the right to decide for yourself that you can make a copy and call it a "demo". If there is a demo for a game (or one forthcoming), play the demo. That's the thing that the creators have made available free of charge. Incidentally, it doesn't cost nothing to produce a demo--they're giving away something with real value that they don't have to give away. It may help promote sales, but if the game is good enough, word of mouth is likely enough to promote sales. Frankly, I wish Stardock wouldn't bother with a demo and would spend that time adding things to the game.

Deciding for yourself that you deserve a retail copy of a game to try out is selfishness, pure and simple. Who are you to decide that a demo isn't good enough? You are not the king of gaming, with all game publishers as your vassals, who owe you tribute in the form of free video games. If there's a demo, play the demo. If there's no demo, and you have to try before you buy, don't buy the game. Nobody ever gave you the right to play any game you want.

Just because you *can* do something, doesn't mean you *should*.

Glad to hear things are swell in La La Land.

The fact is, in today's day and age piracy is absolutely a viable option to gamers. With almost zero threat of personal negative consequences to the average consumer, the draconian laws may as well not exist. Saying "It's not your decision to make" isn't really gonna affect anything one way or another, however loftily or pompously you say it.

So it's up to the game developers to either pretend piracy doesn't exist or do what Stardock does - attempt to adapt, and kudos to them for accepting actual reality and marketing their product within that reality.

The future of PC gaming lies in providing high quality multiplayer experiences that make people want to pay for the product, because that's the only real way you can successfully tie a serial to a copy of a game and have the user require the serial to play (without forcing single player gamers to connect to the net to play, which is almost always met with disgust), and if Stardock can swiftly iron out Demigod's multiplayer issues they'll almost certainly have a huge success on their hands.

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Quoting rockerest,

reply 25

Quoting Rhah, reply 19I have alway pirate to try games out before I buy to many developers now adays either release a game thats not well thought out or tons of bugs (should of been in beta still)

Quoting Rhah, reply 19Its just a necessary evil, so you wont be out $50 for a bad product, and its not a money issue its a principle issue. As long as companies get away with selling shody products with no reprocussions they will continue to do it.

This is a larger truth than just games. It's why I download and/or rip ***s and such from Net**** or the Library. The MPAA and the RIAA and the companies that produce the media don't produce content worth paying for, even in a theater, so why should they get my money when I just want to see if I WOULD buy it even once in a while.

Companies that don't understand basic business principles about providing a product WORTH paying for are the ones who are upset about piracy. It's companies like Stardock that understand that pirates COULD be their friends if treated with courtesy that survive and thrive.

Thanks Stardock.

So true. I only started pirating because I got swindled out of my allowance as a kid, with explosive commercials for games, which I then bought...and they sucked ASS! Buggy and horrible, and with less than half the features they promised.

Man, Lionhead lost one dyed-in-the-wool-fan when they released Black and White...never EVER have I seen a buggier game. I had waited for that game for 4 years, reading every developer log, had every screenshot + fanart and videos on my computer, even bought a domain and made my own fansite (the ONLY one with ALL pictures, screenshots and videos of the betas and the game), and if all they promised had been in the game, it would have ROCKED!!! Instead they suddenly changed it to "Let's make 5 games, and then the fifth one can be a good game, and the rest are our betas, which people pay to test. INGENIOUS AND PROFITABLE!" I had already bought it by then, and the first month we couldn't get past level 3 because of a bug, and the fix for level 5 took 2½ month...WTF!?!

If there's no demo, I pirate it, see how it runs on my computer, and if I like it I buy it instantly (oh, frog-people of Gaspowered Games, thank you SO much for instant download with 5,5MB/s). If I don't like it, I post why on their forums, and delete the game. Really simple. The problem with the newer games is, that the cracks are so elaborate, that the games may suffer performance-issues because of them. This is unacceptable, so I can't see a reason to complete a game if it's cracked and therefore not updated or working as intended.

There are many possible fixes to this problem. Here are 2:

1. Get a demo out BEFORE the freaking launch. AND/OR, as soon as possible, get a genuine game-benchmark out for your game, so we can easily see how it runs on our computers. Like the guys who made "Last Remnant". They made a 121MB benchmark I could try, and the game ran not-so-swell on my computer, so I was prepared and bought some extra hardware before release. Ingenious, so I don't sit there with a new game that runs like shit because I had no chance to test and prepare.

2. Make the game and initial features FREE! Like Demigod, but then only 2 characters available. Then you can unlock the 6 other characters by buying it. Or you could make it so people could buy a starter-pack for half the price, with half the game, and if they want to have more of it, they can buy the last half of the game.

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Quoting Ultroman,

reply 4

2. Make the game and initial features FREE! Like Demigod, but then only 2 characters available. Then you can unlock the 6 other characters by buying it. Or you could make it so people could buy a starter-pack for half the price, with half the game, and if they want to have more of it, they can buy the last half of the game.

Sadly I don't think that'd work. If you limit the game down like that you'll just see the hacked/full game on the warez scene anyway.

I think what does work is tying the game to a rich online experience. MMO's are a big win because of that. It's pretty hard to pirate Counterstrike too. You can, but you're limiting yourself a lot. Convenience also works. Look at iTunes. It's DRM free these days yet it still makes oodles of cash, because it's just so easy to use.

Dungeon Siege was a steller game and it had a kick ass online experience. If you weren't legit you were missing out on a lot in that game.

I remember Tribes 2 had a great in game online experience. Built in email, forums, clans. Again you could pirate and play solo with bots or buy the game and have 10 times more fun.

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Well, of course you'd have to program something extraordinary to make it work and be unpirateable. Something along the lines of you having to connect to the servers and register your CD-key to get the last bits.

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Why I pirated Demigod, and why I feel guilty. By a disgruntled Aussie

To start off I had pre-ordered a copy of Demigod through my local EB Games because they had a special deal going "$20 off if you pre-order" great I thought. Not so great is the fact that the release date for the game in Aus is 7th of May, ok I can handle the wait, or so I thought.

So after reading so much about this game and every major website posting up a review I just couldn't wait anymore and downloaded it illegally, which I felt really guilty about because even though I had every intention of buying the game I was also contributing to the problem. So I managed to quite happily enjoy the single player aspect of this game while I wait for the Aus release of the game and get ready for some multiplayer action with my mates.

Fast foward to yesterday and EB has just changed the release date for their game to the 21st of May, as you could understand I was none too happy about this, so after having such a bad week (completely unrelated to gaming) I marched down to EB and canceled my preorder and then proceded to order from Impulse and am now happily gaming away at Demi god.

So to Stardock, GPG and anyone else associated with this game, sorry for being a dirty pirate.

Also for those interested taking into account the exchange rate and the $20 off I would have gotten from EB buying from Impulse ended up being just over $20 cheaper.

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What a sad thing to see...I can't believe what I am reading in this thread.

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Personally I'd much rather they release the demo and let those that dont like it stay out of the community.

Forums have enough drama without people that spam "i hate this game and I want my money back" threads

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if you don't have a demo prior to release, people will pirate it to try it out (and steal it too of course, in many cases). No amount of moral high ground 'waggling of fingers' and tut-tutting will change that. Some people simply will not buy without trying.. who can blame them?

Just make sure the product you buy is better than the pirate version, and you'll convert some of them. That's the best you can hope for.

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Quoting Zubaz,

reply 4

We would rather you wait for the demo if you want to try it. Many of those who pirate are not trying the game, they are stealing it. And yes, some of those folks would have never bought the game at all.

And we are not "DRM-Free". We are don't get in the way of legit customers. There is a difference.

So wait you don't want me to pirate it to try it because others are stealing it. That makes about as much sense as telling me not to do anything because others doing it aren't doing it for positive reasons.

I pirated it, and as with any other game I genuinely enjoy I bought it almost immediately (well 24 hours later) It's sitting happily beside the rest of my games. None of which would have ever been purchased if I took your advise.

The biggest problem with Demos is they exaggerate how much extra content is in a game. When you end up buying it you realize the demo had 99% of the content and that "Unfinished game" feel of the Demo was actually just the game being unfinished.

Not that I feel that away about any Stardock products, to be honest I've yet to be disappointed. Even if there are bumps everything that gets made here tends to do what it should.

Make me smile and not regret my investment .

PS. "Centuries Old Property Laws" As someone brought up, do not apply to digital mediums. They apply to all products that are physical. Stealing a CD falls back on those laws, stealing data that can be infinitely replicated does not.

If we could generate an infinite (and instantly replenishable) amount of any physical substance it would be legal to steal it because the person who had it stolen would merely replicate a new one. You can argue that what is being stolen is the time of the workers however many of your everyday activities steal time from people (contributing to traffic for instance). If a product is good, it sells, you don't see Blizzard having a whiny fit every tuesday about private servers.

Generally speaking the only people who hate piracy are people who make crap, put glitter on it, and call it treasure. It's still crap, just shinier. This is in no way how I feel about Stardock, but in general that is why Piracy exist. I've never seen concrete evidence that shows that the majority of piracy leads to reduced sales of products because of the theft itself, I have seen evidence that it screws with the scam operation that most software manufacturers work with.

If you could 'return' video games still I doubt as many people would pirate either. I had to fight just to return Guilty Gear Dust Strikers, but it felt like someone had literally reached into my wallet and jacked me when I played that interactive crap (I'm hard pressed to call it a game).

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I'd love to see someone release a "fake pirated copy" that would have a worm/virus inside it that when installed your PC would brick up just after a large "YOU ARE A PIRATE!" sign flashes across their screen. That would be great as it would completely change the ideal of pirates as it's not on the same line as malicious ware or anything like that as they're freely downloading content that is otherwise considered illegal and wrong, so they'd get what they deserve if their PC got fried because of it.

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Like many others I did this as well. I pirated the game to try it out, liked it so I bought it. Being in aus, I was going to play the pirated game till it came out here but like another poster has mentioned, the release date was moved back so I bought it on impulse instead.

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Heh love all the pirates coming out of the woodwork trying to justify how pirating games is valid. I bet they sure as hell wouldn't be paying for it if they didn't have to - ie it didnt need to be validated or was 100% single player or what not. The only reason these people volunteer pay for the game is they have to in order to play it online properly when it turns out they like it.

A true ethical minority would exist who download to legitimately test performance results or the fact it wasnt out in their country for months or what not - but the greater whole are just a idiots who pirate everything - only buying the occasional game where they have to in order to play it online properly.

*edit - If anything, the numbers of people who pirate it shows the developers precisely what potential a digital release type product actually has. It shows numbers so large tht if it could be capitalised upon, could turn into large-scale, fantastic scales. The reality is that no matter what, products online will be pirated. It comes down to what developers can do to cash in on it. I bet one day you'll see games released for like 9.95 with one map, then 4.95 per map thereafter (where they release with say 10 maps pre-made but release on a schedule to cater for pirating.

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Quoting Deepjay,

reply 14

Heh love all the pirates coming out of the woodwork trying to justify how pirating games is valid. I bet they sure as hell wouldn't be paying for it if they didn't have to - ie it didnt need to be validated or was 100% single player or what not. The only reason these people volunteer pay for the game is they have to in order to play it online properly when it turns out they like it.

A true ethical minority would exist who download to legitimately test performance results or the fact it wasnt out in their country for months or what not - but the greater whole are just a idiots who pirate everything - only buying the occasional game where they have to in order to play it online properly.

I'll say 1 thing about pirates. They're a lot more cool and a lot less self-righteous. You're an idiot if you think that stardock's online constitutes "proper multiplayer." There are alternative programs that support both legit and pirates, such as Hamachi and Gameranger (www.gameranger.com. Best thing to happen to demigod multiplayer)

I can tell you right now that every person that buys a game these days buys it out of the goodness of their hearts, because there is invariably a free alternative. The fact that someone "pirated" the game before buying it is not the proverbial line that shouldn't be crossed because there are a lot of pirates out there who have a strong sense of morals and giving publishers the money they deserve, perhaps more so than people who spend money on big publsiher games like EA and support products that should not be exuded on the public.

I'm young, in college, and broke. No, I cannot buy every game I want, yes I have pirated games. However, I still feel a deep sense of entitlement for publsishers when I come across a good, groundbreaking product. For this reason, I bought Mass Effect Collector's edition, AND standard edition, I got the Collector's and standard of Sins, and I purchased this game too AFTER pirating it.

Another funny thing. I couldn't care less what you think of me for piracy, and honestly I don't care what GPG and Stardock think of piracy, because it won't affect me. Co-incidently, the people who share the most similar views to mine have released the only two really worthwhile PC games in the past two years IMHO.

Hope that clears it up. I believe your view on "no-piracy" is dogmatic and ignorant. You fail to take into account the subtlies, and you see in black and white. Even if people only bought the game fo the "proper" (ha) multiplayer, it lead to sales tha wouldn't have occurred otherwise. I dont see how you, or Stardock/GPG could complain

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Actually I used the term 'proper multiplayer' more in relation to using Demigod's actual ingame multiplayer lobby - nowhere did I comment on the actual performance of it. In fact to date my only word for using that lobby is shitbag. Being in Australia i have had considerable(and continue to do so) issues playing the game multiplayer. I have wasted hours nightly trying to play the game, wondering if i did in fact just piss on the 57 aud it cost me to buy the game.

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I was forced to download the copy.By the way not"pirate" but download.You"pirate" a game when you crack the game,otherwise you download it...learn the difference,cause there actually is one

I do not feel guilty in any way,since this is how i've done with all my games that i currently own.I had my share of dissapointing titles that i bought and hated.For instance Two Worlds,a marvelous single player rpg..oh boy oh boy,let me buy the game to play it online.It cost me 50 dollars,and for my astonishment,the game is a total fail in multiplayer,the single is great,but the multi is just lame.

For instance assasin's creed i played the pirated copy firstly,secondly i bought the game,and as with so many other titles there was not way for me to buy the game on launch date..i had to wait about 3 weeks till it came to Romania the country where i live.

Same goes for the other games i own,c&c tiberium wars and kane's wrath,crysis 1 and crysis wars.

Just made a photo of a few games that i have....not everyone who downloads pirated copyies of a game will never actually buy the game.

Demigod for me is a nice game,and i would love to buy it...but how,via pay/download? No thank you.I am old fashioned.I want the cd/dvd,the case,some manual and a poster,or some extra stuff.I hate steam and i hate anything that is even related to that,meaning pay to download.That i could do for free,just start a torrent and download.If i pay for something,i want to know that it was actually worth the price.That is why every game needs to be tested first.

I am not buying all those marketing crap.Like nfs undercover...wow what an epic fail of a nfs that turned out to be.My friends bought the game,they had to wait 1 month to gather the money,when they bought it,one of them actually poured gasoline on the case and burned it.

This picture comes from your humble "pirate" the one that ruins the game industry and would never buy any games

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http://xs538.xs.to/xs538/09174/1262.jpg

Btw just copy/paste the xs link in your mozilla,ie

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I like the fact that this thread exists.

For someone who mentioned that nobody would purchase something that they didn't NEED to purchase for full functionality, I'd like to show you my shiny copy of Mass Effect, purchased long after completion of the game.

Stardock has my $40. They didn't have it for the first few days I played demigod. I'll leave it at that.

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I also downloaded a copy to check it out before buying it. I was skeptical after Space Siege, so let's be honest here. I played about 2 single player games and said "Wow this game is cool and I'm sure fantastic to play with other people." Right after that I saw the Slashdot article where your rep did the best PR work I think I've seen anyone in the game community do. I went right over the Impulse and plopped my money down.

Moral of the story is make a good game and people will buy it. Also, making it multiplayer that they have to log in to truly enjoy the game.

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Hmm, for some reason i bought this game before trying. Good marketing guys lol, i think the fact that heaps of pirated copies bombing your servers kinda pushed me in the direction for me to go buy it too.

But hey, good purchase, i see that all a lot of people at the private BT tracker i'm registered at decided to buy the game too

Edit: the smileys on the forum are bloody creepy o__o

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I won't download a pirated copy of this game. I took part in betas for Sins and Gal Civ II. Loved the games and love the approach Stardock takes. I'm on the fence for this one so I haven't pulled the trigger on a purchase yet but I can wait till Stardock puts out a demo.

It's the right thing to do... besides I have other games to play while I wait....

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Quoting rockerest,

reply 24

Is a demo SHORTLY forthcoming? Can anyone point me to an HTTP served pirate version? I would just like to try this game before I buy it.

HAHAHA OMFG what a retard. Serious, you come on the game developers website, asking for a link to a pirated version of THERE GAME? Holy shit. You have balls man.

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Quoting TravCarp,

reply 22

Quoting rockerest,
reply 24

Is a demo SHORTLY forthcoming? Can anyone point me to an HTTP served pirate version? I would just like to try this game before I buy it.

HAHAHA OMFG what a retard. Serious, you come on the game developers website, asking for a link to a pirated version of THERE GAME? Holy shit. You have balls man.

Well this is the same person that claims Stardock understands pirates COULD be their friends (whatever that really means) and went on about treating pirates with courtesy. Stardock has never said anything of the kind. I think their approach to DRM and copy-protection has very little to do with pirates and a lot to do with their customers. That's the main difference, their focus. While companies like EA and now Atari spend all their time dreaming up new schemes to thwrat pirates and completely ignore the effects on their customers, or worse yet, belittle their complaints and call anyone who complains about their tactics a pirate or such a small educated minority that they don't matter, Stardock seems concerned about their consumers first.

I doubt anyone at Stardock appreciates anything pirates do and certainly wouldn't extend to them courtesy. Why should they? They are stealing from them.

I think Stardock's stance on demos, however, is short-sighted. Any game I am following, I try the demo which is out often before release. Sometimes it prompts me not to buy the game, other times it confirms my interest, several times its too short or limited that it doesn't tell me anything at all about the game. I think the last one wouldn't help with piracy much but a good demo could encourage people to try the game before they buy it the legal way. It certainly won't stop everyone from pirating to try before buying, but I am sure we all know that.

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wow...talking about piracy is one thing, dude. If you don't even know...

I can't explain how wrong it is to ask that question here. Pass on, m8

HINT, though. Google can do anything. It can even get you pizza

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Quoting TravCarp,

reply 22

Quoting rockerest, reply 24

Is a demo SHORTLY forthcoming? Can anyone point me to an HTTP served pirate version? I would just like to try this game before I buy it.

HAHAHA OMFG what a retard. Serious, you come on the game developers website, asking for a link to a pirated version of THERE GAME? Holy shit. You have balls man.

What you seem to fail to understand is that these guys don't see it as a problem. You do, they don't. They regard pirating a game as a normal thing to do, rather than buying into the hype and then hoping that they haven't wasted their money.

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